Hey Everyone,

Here is a question that proves that I am a newbie: What is "stumble"?? Does this happen on CVT Minis??

Thanks,

Al

 

Welcome, welcome...

I believe that yes, the CVTs can indeed stumble with the best of them. For tons more information you'll want to visit the "Beneath the Bonnet" forum and click on any number of "stumble" threads. Hopefully you're asking because you're being cautious and NOT because you think you have the stumble. That would be most unfortunate.

 

Thanks OmToast! I was just inquiring because I just purchased a 2004 MC with CVT. I don't have the car yet, it is being shipped to my house sometime this week...and i was just curious about the stumble issue. Hopefully I won't have it!

Thanks Again,

Al

 

Hey Everyone. I just picked up a 2003 MCS (build Aug. 2003) about a week ago. It is all that I had hoped for.

Out of curiousity, are there any drivers out there with the "Yo-yo" but not the stumble? I feel like there may be some yo-yoing going on around the 2900-3200 range, but I haven't experienced any hiccup around 2k rpm. Seems to be better off when the A/C is off. From what I have read, I should just deal with yo-yo and avoid any computer updates, yes?

Thanks! And I look forward to getting to know more about my and others' MINIs.

Miniature :smile:

 

>>Hey Everyone. I just picked up a 2003 MCS (build Aug. 2003) about a week ago. It is all that I had hoped for.
>>
>>Out of curiousity, are there any drivers out there with the "Yo-yo" but not the stumble? I feel like there may be some yo-yoing going on around the 2900-3200 range, but I haven't experienced any hiccup around 2k rpm. Seems to be better off when the A/C is off. From what I have read, I should just deal with yo-yo and avoid any computer updates, yes?
>>
>>Thanks! And I look forward to getting to know more about my and others' MINIs.
>>
>>Miniature :smile:
Hi Miniature,

I just took delivery of my Sept build 04 MCS last Thursday.
My car should have the same software as yours, and it behaves exactly as you describe.
My car does not have any hint of stumble, but in second gear, and only in second gear under heavy throttle, I could feel the yo-yo. I did not remember the specific rpm range when this occurs, but the range you described sounds about right.

Also, on deceleration, slowing down through 1900 rpm, the car does the stumble.I am not all that concerned about it though; now I just declutch before rpm drops below that, or just ignore it.

I'd take the occassional yo-yo over stumble any day, so no software updates for me for now.

 

Thanks Katana Pilot!

One difference I hear between our MCSs is that I can give it more gas to AVOID the yo-yo. But I agree whole-heartedly...better to yo-yo than to stumble. And I have found myself engaging the clutch to bypass the 1900 hiccup just as you described.

Miniature

 

Ok, my July Build 03 MC has a dead spot in first gear somwhere between 3000-4000 RPM. When I accelerate hard, there is a point, where the power stops momentarily and comes back (lasts for only a second) It seems to go away after I drive the car a number of minutes.


Would that be considered the Yo Yo, Stumble, or something else??

I also have a bit of an idling issue. With the AC running, and if I'm at a stop light, I see engine idling around 700RPM, I'll begin to hear the engine begin to sputter. A quick blip on the throttle fixes it. Doesn't always happen--only if the exact magical criteria of my position on earth is met, my AC is on, and I'm holding my cell phone to my ear! Just kidding of course. Does seem mysterious though.


Thanks

 

As you describe it, I would say that is the stumble. Most people experience it at lower RPM's, but that's more than likely due to driving style. Try pulling away at lower RPM's in first and see if the stumble is more pronounced. I'm surprised you feel the stumble with engine revs above 3000 RPMs.

The erractic idle is a common problem. I have it, as well. It seems to occur more in hot weather with the AC on. Not sure if it is heat related or AC related or both.

See ya,
JS

 

>>As you describe it, I would say that is the stumble. Most people experience it at lower RPM's, but that's more than likely due to driving style. Try pulling away at lower RPM's in first and see if the stumble is more pronounced. I'm surprised you feel the stumble with engine revs above 3000 RPMs.
>>
>>The erractic idle is a common problem. I have it, as well. It seems to occur more in hot weather with the AC on. Not sure if it is heat related or AC related or both.
>>
>>See ya,
>>JS

Hi JS-

Thanks for the confirmation. I discovered about 4 other local MC owners with the same issue. I'm not sure of the RPM's any more. I know for certain it happens in 1st gear when I'm accelerating hard from a stand still. Power cuts off and the comes back causing a Lurch. Occupants in the car think I'm driving rough, like I'm popping the clutch, except I'm already in gear and not touching the clutch when it happens.

 

I was told recently that if you put in 93 octane or better that the stumble and yoyo are minimized or eliminated. Has anyone heard this? I have been using 93 octane and have not really noticed any problems. Is the fix in my head?

 

Like KatanaPilot, I have a September build '04 MCS. There is absolutely no stumble but I do have the yo-yo between 2500 and 3500 rpm. This happens at half and full throttle.

Theo

 

Hello all,

I've not made any comments re: stumble and or yo/yo.
Reason being is.... fortunately...... my MCS has never had ...either.
(maybe a slight yo-yo before I installed the air intake ( my 1st mod)...which was many moons ago.

I'm requesting a chance to drive a MCS or MC which is unfortunately afflicted w/ this bothersome and potentially dangerous problem.
For those of you who know me.... I'm in Valley Stream,LI in NY and I would really like to see & feel 1st hand.... this issue.

Please IM me or call @516 551 5517

Thanks in advance

Peace,
D

 

I have a July/August Built 2002 MINI Cooper S. What year MCS is this Yo-Yo or Stumble Problem affect?

I have not felt any problems in mine, but I may just be not aware of it in my car.

Thanks,
Carl

 

September build '04 MCS. Stumble and yo-yo.

What a *****.

jerij

 

I have an July 03 build with stumble. I am scheduled for 10,000 service in late February. At that time they'll install version 36 software and the stumble will disappear!

 

And hopefully the yo-yo.

 

>>September build '04 MCS. Stumble and yo-yo.
>>
>>What a *****.
>>
>>jerij


Your Sept '03 build '04 MCS came with software release CD 35, which was an "Interim" software fix until CD 36 (Final fix) became available at the end of December.

My '04 MCS also came with CD 35 which cured the stumble about 80% but not completely. Therefore, you need to update your MCS to CD 36 as soon as possible.

My dealer updated my car to CD 36 last Wednesday and it runs like a champ!


According to MINIUSA's service bulletin, ANY MINI (Cooper/Cooper CVT/MCS) built before 11/2003 does not have CD 36 from the factory and therefore needs to be taken to the dealer to receive the software download.

 

Here is a copy of BMW/MINI service bulletin SI M 12 02 03



SI M 12 02 03
Engine Electrical November 2003
Service Engineering


SUBJECT
Drivability Complaints - DME Programming

MODEL
Cooper/Cooper CVT up to 10/03

Cooper S up to 10/03


SITUATION
Customers may complain of the following:

Cooper 5-speed/CVT - engine speed dip/fluctuation when coasting down to a stop or when acceleration from a stop with engine fully warmed.

Cooper S – poor pull-away performance when accelerating from a stop in first gear.

CORRECTION
On a customer complaint basis only, reprogram the EMS2000 engine control module using GT1 with the special "CD 36.0 German Version" loaded.

Note:

The English version of DIS CD 36.0 (containing the same DME calibration) is planned for release at the end of December.

PROCEDURE
To load the special "CD 36.0 German Version" into your GT1:

Insert disc into DVD drive.

Select Administration

Activate CD Drive 1

Select DIS Installation

To reprogram the EMS2000 control module:

Connect a battery charger.

Connect GT1 loaded with the special "CD 36.0 German Version".

Select: Coding/Programming.

Select: 5 Programmierung (5 Programming), then the right arrow.

Select: 1 DME Programmierung, then the right arrow.

Select 2 Steuergerat tauschen (2 Exchange Control Unit), then the right arrow.

Display appears Zuerst Grundsteuergerat ermitteln...(First determine and then program basic control unit), then the right arrow.

Select 1 Grundsteuergerat ermitteln (1 Determine basic control unit), then the right arrow. Automatic determination is going to be performed.

DME Ist defektes Steuergerat noch im Fahrzeug verbaut? (DME ESM2000 is the faulty control unit still installed in the car?), select JA (YES).

Zundung einschalten! Automatische Ermittlung starten? (Switch on ignition. Start automatic determination?), select JA (YES).

Display appears with VIN. Stimmen Nummern uberein? (Chassis number ........ Do numbers correspond?) Select JA (YES).

Part numbers of basic control units are displayed, then scroll down till the end

13.At this point vehicle data is stored in the tester for the automatic identification. Scroll to the left.

Select: 2 Grundsteuergerat programmieren (2 Program basic control module), then the right arrow.

Follow instructions for entering the last seven characters of the VIN. Select JA (YES).

Zundung einschalten (Switch on ignition), then right arrow twice.

The next screen displays: Das Steuergerat kann noch XX mal programmiert...(The control module can be programmed X times), then the right arrow.

Follow the command for mileage entry Eingabe korrekt? (Entry correct?). Select: JA (YES)

Automatische Programmierung starten? (DME EMS2000 Start automatic programming?) Select: JA (YES).

After successful programming, message is displayed: Programmierung beedet (Programming completed).

Important : at this point turn ignition off and perform battery reset (disconnect battery cable) for 30 seconds. After that, reconnect battery.

Recode EMS2000 control module. Select 3 Codierung ZCS/FA.

Select Baureihe R50/R53, then the right arrow.

Select 1 Neucodierung (1 Recoding), then the right arrow.

Select 95 MOTRONIC, then the right arrow.

Auswahl korrekt? Select JA (YES).

Motronic Automatische Codierung starten? Select JA (YES).

After coding is completed, turn ignition off for 10 seconds and then start the engine.

Important:

The EMS2K part numbers after programming with CD 36.0 should be as follows:

R50 Cooper 5-speed: programmed number 7539191, basic number 7527610;

R50 Cooper CVT: programmed number 7539187, basic number 7527610;

R53 Cooper S: programmed number 7539189, basic number 7527610.

[ MINI, a division of BMW of North America, LLC
Copyright © 2003 BMW of North America, LLC ]


Note: English version of CD 36 was released early January.
_________________
'02 Cooper CVT PW/B, Bone stock (Hers)
'04 MCS CR/W/Chrome Grille and mirror caps (His)

 

>According to MINIUSA's service bulletin, ANY MINI (Cooper/Cooper CVT/MCS) built before 11/2003 does not have CD 36 from the factory and therefore needs to be taken to the dealer to receive the software download.
___________________
Not possible to upgrade with v36 for 5/02 build MC (I was shown their Service Bulletin) although I don't have the stumble, yo-yo problem.