R50/53 16" vs. 17" Tires- Opinion
Thread Starter
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5th Gear
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 811
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From: Chicago
I have seen some threadz going around about this- but
seemingly, mainly about the ride quality .
What are the handling differences between the 17"s with
the All-Seasons and standard 16"s on the MCS? I drove a 03 MCS
with the 17" All-Seasons- it had Goodyear RS-A run-flats?
Standard spec for 04?
Big questions are-
*Handling differences
*Accel differences (does the weight of the 17"s effect it?)
*Ride differences
*Abusability (will bad roads shred a 17" vs. a 16"
please direct me to another thread if I'm off redundant-
Thanks in advance for any info!
caio,
-Matt
seemingly, mainly about the ride quality .
What are the handling differences between the 17"s with
the All-Seasons and standard 16"s on the MCS? I drove a 03 MCS
with the 17" All-Seasons- it had Goodyear RS-A run-flats?
Standard spec for 04?
Big questions are-
*Handling differences
*Accel differences (does the weight of the 17"s effect it?)
*Ride differences
*Abusability (will bad roads shred a 17" vs. a 16"
please direct me to another thread if I'm off redundant-
Thanks in advance for any info!
caio,
-Matt
OVERDRIVE - Racing Champion
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,262
Likes: 72
From: Mililani, Hawaii
>>I have seen some threadz going around about this- but
>>seemingly, mainly about the ride quality .
Ride smoothness is a bit better with the 16" than the 17" but the tires you choose are key. Which tire size, low profile is harsher, and which rubber compound makes a difference. Some tires are more quiet and softer riding but maybe not as much grip. Some don't wear as long if they are softer rubber and more grip.
>>What are the handling differences between the 17"s with
>>the All-Seasons and standard 16"s on the MCS? I drove a 03 MCS
>>with the 17" All-Seasons- it had Goodyear RS-A run-flats?
>>Standard spec for 04?
The other standard All-Seasons were Dunlop sport 9000 non runflats (noisy) and Pirelli Eufori Runflats (harsh riding except on smooth roads and prone to tramming on the concrete ridges of the highways).
Lets think there are several ways to answer this question-
Are you comparing stock options - standard MINI 16" from MCS vs sport 17" like S-lytes?
Or are you comparing broadly any aftermarket set up of 16" vs 17".
Let first deal with the later- the aftermarket choices since this is the way to go.
>>Big questions are-
>>*Handling differences
Always think of the wheel as having two parts that affect handling. The rim itself and the tire. Both need to be matched and in fact they work together along with the suspension you have to give you "handling" in a broad sense. So the wise driver will look first at the MINI's suspension. Is it stock or upgraded. Stock suspension is a bit softer so more aggressive low profile tires are tolerated a little better and ride is not quite as harsh as when the suspension is lowered. Depends how you like your ride to be and on the roads you drive.
Handling with the 16" in general will be easier to tolerate for daily street driving. Less harsh or punishing. But performance can be pretty good depending on what suspension you have and which tires you have. A lowered car with rear swaybar and 45 or 40 series grippy tires will handle quite well in corners even with an MC's power.
>>*Accel differences (does the weight of the 17"s effect it?)
Weight is your enemy give or take 2 pounds. Put 10 pounds in your backpack and walk one quarter mile uphill. Now do it running. Now load 20 pounds in your backpack and walk it then run it. How do you feel? does the extra weight under load (running) make a difference? Well if you are light like 100 pounds then it makes a big difference but if you are 250 pounds of muscle then it is not so bad. So with a stock car with limited power it is crucial to stay lean and mean with wheels while the 230 HP super MCS can afford to carry a few more pounds that a 17" wheel adds.
Rule of thumb is 1" diameter bigger adds about 1-2 pounds and chrome adds 2 pounds per wheel. Designs vary and so do weights. When shopping a 16" rim weighs from 11 pounds ( SSR Comp R) to 15 pounds(AK Tire Monzas 16x6.5 about 14 pounds-see RandyBMC) while many 16" rims are in the 17 pound range. while 17" from around 12 pounds RH Evolution CP8R 17x7 to 14.5-15.5+ pounds (Centerline RPM 17x7<advertised at 13 at 14 per rim but mine weigh closer to 15 on my scale> or RH CP8 17x7.5"/Team Dynamics Pro Racing 17x7<I have seen this listed at 17 pounds at Outmotoring>, but many 17" rims are in the 19 to 23 pound range.
In general the less the rim weighs the stronger it needs to be-think forged!(means expensive) not cast- which is heavier but not as expensive in order to drive on city roads and resist (not be bullet proof) damage from road debris, potholes and other obstacles. A strong lightweight rim will resist damage as well as a medium weight cast rim but only to a degree. You must be careful and drive to avoid danger at all times. Some rims are sold only in sets!
Also some designs are only available in 17" and larger sizes. So there may be constraints. Just don't go too much wider than 8" width due to rubbing issues.
>>*Ride differences
In general the 16" will be smoother. Tires make the bigger difference. Stick to 45 series for a blend of comfort and cornering performance. 40s are harsher a little and 35 series are harsher still. 50 series offer softer ride but less performance on hard cornering. Road noise and grip on wet vs dry has to do with which tire you select.
>>*Abusability (will bad roads shred a 17" vs. a 16"
Rims don't matter as much as road surfaces and tire rubber and tread patterns. Don't beat up your tires- esp on the track.
>>Differences in the winter?
Here the tires make the most difference- consult with Alex@tirerack. There are threads already on winter tires vs all season non runflat tires.
>>please direct me to another thread if I'm off redundant-
Search for threads with the key words you already wrote- take your pick
>>Thanks in advance for any info!
For stock choices the 16" stock MCS wheels or the 16" sport MC wheels are good choices.
The 17" MINI wheels do look better but are heavy and the tires tend to be rougher riding except on smooth roads- where I have found them to be OK even with lowered springs on my MCS.
Enjoy shopping. Think light!
>>seemingly, mainly about the ride quality .
Ride smoothness is a bit better with the 16" than the 17" but the tires you choose are key. Which tire size, low profile is harsher, and which rubber compound makes a difference. Some tires are more quiet and softer riding but maybe not as much grip. Some don't wear as long if they are softer rubber and more grip.
>>What are the handling differences between the 17"s with
>>the All-Seasons and standard 16"s on the MCS? I drove a 03 MCS
>>with the 17" All-Seasons- it had Goodyear RS-A run-flats?
>>Standard spec for 04?
The other standard All-Seasons were Dunlop sport 9000 non runflats (noisy) and Pirelli Eufori Runflats (harsh riding except on smooth roads and prone to tramming on the concrete ridges of the highways).
Lets think there are several ways to answer this question-
Are you comparing stock options - standard MINI 16" from MCS vs sport 17" like S-lytes?
Or are you comparing broadly any aftermarket set up of 16" vs 17".
Let first deal with the later- the aftermarket choices since this is the way to go.
>>Big questions are-
>>*Handling differences
Always think of the wheel as having two parts that affect handling. The rim itself and the tire. Both need to be matched and in fact they work together along with the suspension you have to give you "handling" in a broad sense. So the wise driver will look first at the MINI's suspension. Is it stock or upgraded. Stock suspension is a bit softer so more aggressive low profile tires are tolerated a little better and ride is not quite as harsh as when the suspension is lowered. Depends how you like your ride to be and on the roads you drive.
Handling with the 16" in general will be easier to tolerate for daily street driving. Less harsh or punishing. But performance can be pretty good depending on what suspension you have and which tires you have. A lowered car with rear swaybar and 45 or 40 series grippy tires will handle quite well in corners even with an MC's power.
>>*Accel differences (does the weight of the 17"s effect it?)
Weight is your enemy give or take 2 pounds. Put 10 pounds in your backpack and walk one quarter mile uphill. Now do it running. Now load 20 pounds in your backpack and walk it then run it. How do you feel? does the extra weight under load (running) make a difference? Well if you are light like 100 pounds then it makes a big difference but if you are 250 pounds of muscle then it is not so bad. So with a stock car with limited power it is crucial to stay lean and mean with wheels while the 230 HP super MCS can afford to carry a few more pounds that a 17" wheel adds.
Rule of thumb is 1" diameter bigger adds about 1-2 pounds and chrome adds 2 pounds per wheel. Designs vary and so do weights. When shopping a 16" rim weighs from 11 pounds ( SSR Comp R) to 15 pounds(AK Tire Monzas 16x6.5 about 14 pounds-see RandyBMC) while many 16" rims are in the 17 pound range. while 17" from around 12 pounds RH Evolution CP8R 17x7 to 14.5-15.5+ pounds (Centerline RPM 17x7<advertised at 13 at 14 per rim but mine weigh closer to 15 on my scale> or RH CP8 17x7.5"/Team Dynamics Pro Racing 17x7<I have seen this listed at 17 pounds at Outmotoring>
, but many 17" rims are in the 19 to 23 pound range.In general the less the rim weighs the stronger it needs to be-think forged!(means expensive) not cast- which is heavier but not as expensive in order to drive on city roads and resist (not be bullet proof) damage from road debris, potholes and other obstacles. A strong lightweight rim will resist damage as well as a medium weight cast rim but only to a degree. You must be careful and drive to avoid danger at all times. Some rims are sold only in sets!
Also some designs are only available in 17" and larger sizes. So there may be constraints. Just don't go too much wider than 8" width due to rubbing issues.
>>*Ride differences
In general the 16" will be smoother. Tires make the bigger difference. Stick to 45 series for a blend of comfort and cornering performance. 40s are harsher a little and 35 series are harsher still. 50 series offer softer ride but less performance on hard cornering. Road noise and grip on wet vs dry has to do with which tire you select.
>>*Abusability (will bad roads shred a 17" vs. a 16"
Rims don't matter as much as road surfaces and tire rubber and tread patterns. Don't beat up your tires- esp on the track.
>>Differences in the winter?
Here the tires make the most difference- consult with Alex@tirerack. There are threads already on winter tires vs all season non runflat tires.
>>please direct me to another thread if I'm off redundant-
Search for threads with the key words you already wrote- take your pick
>>Thanks in advance for any info!
For stock choices the 16" stock MCS wheels or the 16" sport MC wheels are good choices.
The 17" MINI wheels do look better but are heavy and the tires tend to be rougher riding except on smooth roads- where I have found them to be OK even with lowered springs on my MCS.
Enjoy shopping. Think light!
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,265
Likes: 0
From: Dunedin, FL, USA
minihune gave a great write-up.
Let me add that, at 17lbs, the stock v-spoke wheels are your best bet. They come with the MCS for free and are a strong but light wheel. The 5 spoke 16" (which is an option on the Cooper) is 20lbs. If you want to go aftermarket, I still say stick with 16" unless you really want the bigger style. Some aftermarket project cars like the one Sport Compact Car did, have 15" wheels. But if you ever think you'll put aftermarket discs & calipers on the car like
Grassroots Motorsports then you'll definitely want 17s for the clearance.
_________________
[img]albums/album25/ama.gif[/img]VinceAndJessica.com
Alta pulley, Stebro exhaust, Pipercross intake, Progress rear anti-sway bar.
Let me add that, at 17lbs, the stock v-spoke wheels are your best bet. They come with the MCS for free and are a strong but light wheel. The 5 spoke 16" (which is an option on the Cooper) is 20lbs. If you want to go aftermarket, I still say stick with 16" unless you really want the bigger style. Some aftermarket project cars like the one Sport Compact Car did, have 15" wheels. But if you ever think you'll put aftermarket discs & calipers on the car like
Grassroots Motorsports then you'll definitely want 17s for the clearance.
_________________
[img]albums/album25/ama.gif[/img]VinceAndJessica.com
Alta pulley, Stebro exhaust, Pipercross intake, Progress rear anti-sway bar.
pug poo picker-upper
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,803
Likes: 30
From: California
Just to add a little more in favor of the 16" stock v-spokes.
If you bypass the 17's and bypass DSC, you will only need to pay the $700 or so for the Xenons and fogs and not the $1300 for the entire sport package. It's funny to me that the 17" wheels/run-flats are "sport" when in fact they make the car slower to accelerate.
Dave
If you bypass the 17's and bypass DSC, you will only need to pay the $700 or so for the Xenons and fogs and not the $1300 for the entire sport package. It's funny to me that the 17" wheels/run-flats are "sport" when in fact they make the car slower to accelerate.
Dave
Thread Starter
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5th Gear
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 811
Likes: 0
From: Chicago
Thanks for the advice- minihune, good stuff! I'm impressed (sure you don't work for Tire Rack :smile: After the runflats run low on tread, i'll get some non-run flats. I don't like the Eagle F1's on my vette, doubt runflats are any better on other cars (ride and such)...
Side note, the Rear-Fogs are no longer on miniusa.com :smile:
Now comes the roulette, do I get stumble or not?
Caio,
-Matt
Side note, the Rear-Fogs are no longer on miniusa.com :smile:
Now comes the roulette, do I get stumble or not?
Caio,
-Matt
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4th Gear
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 413
Likes: 0
From: Bahstun, MA
>>Just to add a little more in favor of the 16" stock v-spokes.
>>
>>If you bypass the 17's and bypass DSC, you will only need to pay the $700 or so for the Xenons and fogs and not the $1300 for the entire sport package. It's funny to me that the 17" wheels/run-flats are "sport" when in fact they make the car slower to accelerate.
>>
>>Dave
Have others skipped DSC? Especially in norther climes like Boston? Is it missed? I'm planning on putting snows on my Mini, but figured DSC was de riguer...
>>
>>If you bypass the 17's and bypass DSC, you will only need to pay the $700 or so for the Xenons and fogs and not the $1300 for the entire sport package. It's funny to me that the 17" wheels/run-flats are "sport" when in fact they make the car slower to accelerate.
>>
>>Dave
Have others skipped DSC? Especially in norther climes like Boston? Is it missed? I'm planning on putting snows on my Mini, but figured DSC was de riguer...
2nd Gear
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
From: Michigan
I live in Michigan as well. (East Sider) I bought DSC, Zenons, Fogs and saved $100 by keeping the 16" all season v spokes. I figure the DSC will be handy in our winters. Although some Blizzaks and common sense would have been just as good, probably.
I bought lightweight 17" Konig Heliums and Falken all seasons in the stock sizes from Discount Tire. I should have tried either 215 45 17's , 205 50 16's or not even bothered. Even the 195 55 16 run flat stockers take a beating from our p*** poor f***** up M*** constructed and reconstructed lottery subsidized patchwork lame excuse for roads.
Ooops, sorry, venting again, strongly consider the 16" wheels, it's all about the size (and stiffness) of your sidewall here I am afraid. If you never have to worry about potholes on the freeway or railroad tracks, you might be happier than I was, if you don't mind the rattles. I don't think shreading a 17 or bending a wheel is likely, just feeling every seem, patch, divit etc got real old, real quick, imho.
When I pushed hard on the 16"s I remember it being easier to sense the limit aproaching ,so that's one for their handling as well.
I bought lightweight 17" Konig Heliums and Falken all seasons in the stock sizes from Discount Tire. I should have tried either 215 45 17's , 205 50 16's or not even bothered. Even the 195 55 16 run flat stockers take a beating from our p*** poor f***** up M*** constructed and reconstructed lottery subsidized patchwork lame excuse for roads.
Ooops, sorry, venting again, strongly consider the 16" wheels, it's all about the size (and stiffness) of your sidewall here I am afraid. If you never have to worry about potholes on the freeway or railroad tracks, you might be happier than I was, if you don't mind the rattles. I don't think shreading a 17 or bending a wheel is likely, just feeling every seem, patch, divit etc got real old, real quick, imho.
When I pushed hard on the 16"s I remember it being easier to sense the limit aproaching ,so that's one for their handling as well.
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