I did some searching and could exactly see what I was looking for.

I had a new set of shoes put on the car about a month ago. I went from the Eagle F1 215/40-17 to the 215/45-17's.

First off the 45's are not what I like. I lost allot of straight line acceleration in all areas and some traction. I think the new shoes push more than the lower profile 40's I had.

When I had the 40's on the car I had I changed to the H-sport upper and lower control arms. I basically took the old arm and set the new H-sports to the same dimension as the old arms. I then used a camber gauge to set the camber to 1.5 deg.. This was a mistake! For anyone changing the lower arms only to adjust camber you will be in for a surprise! The toe-in will change as you change the camber. I didn't really pay attention to the toe-in. As I drive the tires I noticed some feathering on the tires and they were rapidly wearing. When I noticed this I put a string around the car and noticed the toe-in was about 1/2" in. I set the toe to about 1/16th " in and drive the car the rest of the life of the tires(25K miles).

When I got the new tires installed I wanted to have Firestone do an alignment. Dropped the car off at 7:00AM and about noon I got a call from them saying they could not align the car. Why, I asked... We don't have the weights.... Weights? In order to do a proper alignment on this car we need to weight each wheel with a specific load. Load the passenger, driver, back seat, etc... Huh, I asked...

I don't seem to hear this mentioned here, or maybe I just have not found the link talking about it.

I talked to a friend of mine who know many "in the know". He talked to a alignment shop and the owner concurred. Said the alignment on that vehicle takes about half a day and costs 159.00. Explained the process and so forth. I guess some imports have this regiment in the alignment of specific vehicles.

I find this rather weird. If the car is loaded down, what happens when the car is not loaded down? Does this impact the wear patterns of the tires?

I have raced RC cars in the past. 1/8th scale serpents. 60mph demons on the track. I had to setup specific dampening, spring rates, camber, caster, sway bar, turn angles on the foam tires, balance the car, set the droop, and more to get the car to buzz around the track at amazing speeds. Yes... I had to balance the car to get the best performance. ON A MINI COOPER?!?

In using a string to set the rear toe-in I am not sure this method is a good one. If the toe in the front is not at 0 deg. it will affect the string for the rear camber. Trying to measure the distance from front of tire to rear is not very easy. For those of you who set their own rear toe, what is the easiest method?

For my next tire purchase I would like to go back to a 215/40-17. Are there any other tires that are comparable in tire wear, handling, and wet weather? Some better choices? To me, the difference in those 40's were day and night! They are no longer made by goodyear in a 40! Something about not enough load capacity. They were harsh riding after some miles.. but they sure did change the gear ratio enough to put a smile on my face!

 

Go to a cheapy place, and they'll put it on the rack and dial at to stock, if they know how... They'll charge you about $100, plus or minus, and you get what you get.

ANY car will have the alignment change when weighted. The front uses Mac Struts, and they have relatively little camber gain, but the rear have a significant amount of camber gain.

Now, you threw in the adjustable control arms in the rear, and if you think about the trailing arm geometry, it's pretty obvious that changing camber will change toe unless you're REALLY REALLY careful. These introduce more variables that need to be taken into account when doing an alignment, and some shops (cheaper ones) will just throw up thier hands cause they aren't used to doing other than what the book says for a stock version of the car.

So, you want to add aftermarket suspension parts that change the alignement? Find a good performance shop to do a good alignment. The place I use charges about $250 for a good alignment (without setting ride height) and they ask about how much you weigh and put the weights into the car, then go for it.

The weights aren't required, but you will get a bit more camber in the rear when you're in the car than without you in the car. The fronts won't change that much (if any).

Your RC car racing days should serve you well, the geometry issues are the same, as are the effects of changes. Most RC cars don't have mac struts up front, instead they have double A-arms, so there are differences in camber gain and the like. It doesn't matter the car, it's the geometry that's the issue. If you want a Hyundai Excel to go as fast as it can on the track, you have to take care to set the allignment well, same as a Ferrari.

If you don't really care about the handling performance of the car, just get it set "close enough" and have at it. If you want the best that you can get out of the car for a specific driving environment, get a good alignement from a performance alignment shop that is used to working on cars with aftermarket parts.

Matt

 

yep the alignment computer told them to add weights. I have been encouraging people over 200 pounds to be in the drivers seat for the alignment. 200 plus seems to be the weight that throws the rear camber out the most. Shouldn't cost more then $125 for a good alignment with you in the seat if needed. Just keep in mind you have mods that the computer doesn't know about and you will need to educate the techs.

 

Good points.

The standard is not for me. I don't like how the car 'pushes' in the corners. At this point, I don't think I can correct this without spending some bucks. To what extent, I am not sure.

I played a little with rear toe. I had expected results. With some 0 toe or even slight toe out in the rear it had much better cornering. Turn in was faster and once the car was set in the corner it was on rails. The loss was the twitchy feel under hard acceleration and shifting. This was not acceptable!

From my understanding the weights were going to be even all around, with a full tank of gas. I did not know you could tell them your weight and they could adjust accordingly.

I don't have adjustable caster in the front, so I can't play with turn in as much as I would like to.

I have not played with many tires to see what works better with this car.

I am not a track racer, but I do like a car that feels planted. I would consider myself a hard driver as I like to play a bit.

Any suggestions on something to improve the push I am getting?

2004 MCS, swaybar(red). Not sure which one it is! It came with the car when I bought it. 17" bbs rims, strut tower plates, adjustable arms in the rear, more power with pulley, header, exhaust, JCW airbox. More power seems to make it push more when laying down the pedal in the corners. I run about 45 psi in the tires.

 

That would add to your handling issues. Try pressures around 32-35.

 

I'd get some fixed front camber pates (stock is near verticle), don't dial in too much rear camber and play with pressures and the rear settings like you have. If you still can't get what you want, you can either go to a slightly stiffer rear bar or go to a front bar from a cooper or just disconnect one side of the stock front bar. A bit unorthodox, but effective.

If you corner hard, then adding a bit of camber up front will give you more tire life for sure.

Matt

 

I had a similar issue when I went from the Goodyear Eagle F1 DSG (or something like that) 215/40/17 to the Kuhmo SPT 215/45/17. Turn-in isn't nearly as crisp and the sensation of acceleration isn't as dramatic. You are right... it does push more through the turns.

I made the change because I burned through the Goodyears in about 18k miles and wanted something a bit longer lasting. Not so pricy was a bonus too... $140 a corner vs. $80. I also have some pockmarked roads near my office, so I wanted the 45s instead of the 40s to have a bit more 'meat' on the tire for protection. I finally broke down and got a set of track wheels and tires, so I felt that I could make this trade off on my daily driver tires without sacrificing premium performance on the track. The track tires are 215/40/16 and feel great. I'm putting a set of those same Goodyears on after my next DE... Love those tires! Sticky dry and wet... quiet and predictable. My favorite performance tires, but maybe just not the best for an economical daily driver tire.

I'm running IE fixed plates up front (the newer, beefier design), TSW springs and adjustable lower rear control arms in the back. The IE plates get me about -1.8 camber up front... right what I was looking for... not so much camber that it destroys tires on the streets but more than stock to help out for DE and the occasional Auto-X. I set up -1.5 deg camber in the back and it is plenty for me. The TSW guys recommended a bit less camber in the back than the front. The shop was able to get toe and other specs within or very near to factory specs.

 

I appreciate the input guys.

I did have 35psi in the tires and went a little stiffer to help with the acceleration. I don't think I noticed more push due to it, but I could be wrong. I think I have been pushing much less with the 215/40-17's than the 45's. They still pushed, but I could take a 40mph left hand turn without a bark of the tires. Now I'm pushing on initial turn in and grabbing after the car sets. At this time the speed is reduced. Once the car is set and I moderately lay into the throttle she is moving outside. Part of this is due to the lifting of the front end with the throttle. The weight is moving backwards and the suspension is becoming unloaded. At least this is my perception.

I am going to try some camber plates and see what that get's me. I will also need some different struts up front. More dampening!

Are you getting allot of wheel hop up front when the tires break loose? I don't like to get the front loose, but my gosh this car will wheel hop. I don't have the LSD, perhaps this will help immensely?

 

Wheel hop? I lost a lot of that when I put in a lower tower strut brace. UMP or OMP (can't remember which one) was the only one back when I did my install, but now I'd get the TSW X-brace.

 

yup, wheel hop. Nail it in 1st, get wheels spinning=wheel hop. Doesn't take much. I have the OMP lower brace, but not the upper strut tower brace. just the re-inforcements for the strut towers.

 

Yep. I was meaning the lower OMP brace. I put the M7 upper brace on, but really didn't notice any difference when I did it. The lower brace, however, helped with the wheel hop. It's still there, but in a turn the OMP lower brace helps make things much more predictable.

 

Wheel hop may also be contributed to a bad lower front arm bushing.