First Auto-X. .....What's up? Should this be happening with my right rear tire?















His, Chile RED all over, Madness intake, MINI-Motorsport Airbox Mod, Magnaflow Exhaust, BMP spark plug wires, RDR rear sway bar and Helix P/D 15% reduction pulley.
Hers, EB UJ on top and BONE stock.

 

If you have a stiff swaybar in the rear, that will happen...

 

Basically with only one rear tire on the ground it will make you oversteer/loose or as some call it "rotate thru the corner better"...

 

Your right rear tire is lifting completely off the ground and loosing traction which is not something you want if you are autocrossing. Having a stiffer rear swaybar (anti-rollbar) would be helpful. You can increase the diameter of the rear bar or soften the front swaybar (less diameter). Madness ($190) and other sources make adjustable rear swaybars with 3 holes to set stiffness from soft to extra firm. H-sport makes a pair of tubular bars that are adjustable for about $350.

Once you stiffen up the suspension with a beefy swaybar in the rear then the tire will not lift and you will maintain traction through the corner.

 

Hmmm...one of is thinking backwards...

 

From
http://www.theracesite.com/print.cfm?form_article=2719
Now for some examples of things to try on your FWD car…
To make the sliding (front) end stick more:
1) Lower the front end as much as possible without causing bottoming.
2) Adjust front static camber more negative until you’ve found the most grip.
3) Adjust front tire pressure up and down until optimum grip is found.
4) If you are not currently lifting the inside rear tire during cornering, increase the rear spring rate or anti-roll bar until you are.
5) If you are lifting the inside rear tire more than one or two inches off the ground, reduce the front roll angle by increasing the spring rate or stiffening the anti-roll bar. Then redo the static camber experiment.
6) Stagger the front static camber settings by putting more positive camber on the predominantly inside tire. This will depend on the track and how many important corners it has in each direction.

So "reduce the front roll angle by increasing the spring rate or STIFFENING the anti-roll bar".

But I also found this-
http://www.circletrack.com/tipstricks/84658/
Sway Bar Adjustment

When you’re coming through a turn and start to accelerate and your car starts to spin the rear wheels without lifting the pedal, what can you do? The sway bar can be the answer to your problem. Increasing the sway-bar tension will add bite to the left rear tire, reducing the tire spin. Also, if the race car is rolling or leaning in the turns, an increase in tension will help. Having too much tension will also create a problem; this will make your race car push off the corners. The trick is to have enough sway-bar tension to stop wheel spin without creating push.

So- it sounds like you have to be careful when adjusting rear swaybar as you may get variable results if you overdo the firmness setting on an adjustable bar. probably best to try the middle or softer setting first and see how this affects the suspension.

 

WHAT A CORNER THAT IS.
THAT MAKE YOU THINK ABOUT PUTING ALL THE MOD TO YOU MINI
AS YOU CAN SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE THIS HAPPEN TO YOU.









JUST A QUESTION: HOW FAST WOULD YOU DOING ON THIS CORNER???????

 

Lifting the inside rear is common on certain front drive cars... FWD VWs come to mind right away. Even with full race suspension my old auto-X Golf lifted the inside rear (a few inches only) as I expected it to.... does not seem as common on MINIs... looks to me in the pics that the front suspension is seriously compressed.... were you understeering through the corner???? what kind of tires??? Mods??? My stock Cooper (SSP) with r compounds does not lift to that degree as far as I know.

If I had to guess (and no offence to you) I would say you were understeering as you entered the corner a bit hot, and ended up scrubbing off speed with the front tires causing the left front to dive down and lifting the inside rear.... no bit cause for concern.... some more seat time and you will slow a bit more for the turns, resulting in less understeer and a inside rear that is light but on the ground or just lifting a fraction of an inch or so..... Lifting like in the pic looks weird but is not cause for major concern. Hope your first Auto-X was alot of fun!!!!

_________________
Jason

03 MC Black/White
#13 H-Stock.. Atlanta Region SCCA

 

Thanks for the input everyone :smile: I will try to answer a few questions.

I have a fairly stiff and thick RDR rear sway bar on the stiffest setting.

I was traveling about 30 mph? Just a guess.
JAYOUNG, you were there, what speed at this corner?

It was the last of three gates,(not sure of the term? , just look at the picture) on the end of a straightaway, the last corner before the finish line.

I have the stock Pirelli performance run flats (bricks). and they were squeeling like a dying pig the entire day, (likely the combination of rookie driver and tires.)

Look at my signature for mods if interested.

And yes it was a BLAST I highly recommend for EVERYONE Going again next weekend.


His, Chile RED all over, Madness intake, MINI-Motorsport Airbox Mod, Magnaflow Exhaust, BMP spark plug wires, RDR rear sway bar and Helix P/D 15% reduction pulley.
Hers, EB UJ on top and BONE stock

 

What's wrong? It's just waving to everyone.

All FWD HB's do that. GTI's were notorious for it.




_________________

 

I agree with conecarver you were hitting the corner a little hot,as I see it.

 

>>I was traveling about 30 mph? Just a guess.
>>JAYOUNG, you were there, what speed at this corner?
>>

I'd guess a MINIMUM of 30, remember that we could easily hit redline before the END gate. I'll give you a range and say 35-45.

I'll see you at Columbus! You did a GREAT job at Sugar River; especially for your first time. I haven't talked to Charlie since the last AutoX but he said he'd be there too. Let me know if you want to meet somewhere and we can pit together again.

BTW, when I ran our videos all at once in one display you can C L E A R L Y see the difference that Charlie's Kumho's make on the corners. There is one corner where all 3 of us appear to take the same line and approximate speed; you and I push and he sticks.

Oh, and if you want to see the track at Columbus you can see my run here:
http://mcs.maximus-consulting.com/jaymcsrun05.wmv

-Jim

 

TwoMinis,

Go to "the FTP site" and get slowmo5.mpg

It's very illustrative. I'll post it when I have a chance. I'm going to the Mazda Rev it up thingy tomorrow.

Lemme know...

-Jim

 

I should have asked for more background. Yes, it now makes sense. You were a bit hot in the corner and you were exceeding your "brick traction coeficient" which doesn't leave much margin for error. Good track tires will do wonders. Even replacing the runflats would be a great improvement. Forget the beefy swaybar thing- you're covered.
Driving skill counts. Keep at it and good luck. Nice pics by the way.

 

this happens to my MKII Golf when i drive hard with her. its normal for some cars to do that when you beat on them if i can find a few pics of MKII's doing this to a extreme i will post them soon

 

ok i got them


can someone say 2 wheels?


or how about no wheels?

 

Wow

 

if you wanna know what it sound like u should come cruse with my and a few of my friends sometime. i had a '87 Audi 5000s up on 3 wheels last night. and if you dont know what that is. its a bigass car. 4000 lbs i do believe

 

I've done that before...but it wasn't on a track


Anyone have some pics of a classic mini with its wheels in the air?

 

>>this happens to my MKII Golf when i drive hard with her. its normal for some cars to do that when you beat on them if i can find a few pics of MKII's doing this to a extreme i will post them soon

Do you remember the GTI's debut commercial at the closed track to the old Jan & Dean GTO song sang in German to GTI? All three of them were waving the inside/rear in unison on one turn.

Btw, the GTI turned 20 in the states this year. Not a bad run. Call us in another 20.

 

im only 17 so i dont remember the commercial.