Sorry, I posted this in the "electronics" section first, dunno how I missed this forum.

I'm looking to upgrade my audio. I'm going to pull the front/rear swap first obviously but I want an overall better sound/more bass/fidelity.

I'm in an 09 MCS r56 with the Boost CD stock system.

I don't want to replace the head unit.
I don't mind installing a sub as long as it doesn't remove my limited boot (The integral audio set up looks great)
I don't mind pulling things apart.

I really want to keep the stock head unit but I think the high pass filter is going to be an issue if I just 'upgrade' the speakers. I know the high effeciency will be an issue so I'll need an amp.

The integral audio set up looks perfect to be honest, completely hidden, all the right parts, etc, but the cost is just... hard to swallow, there has to be a way to get a similar effect for less than 3k. Anyone with some experience or builds that can offer some advice, I don't need competition sound but I'd like to rattle some windows and really "feel" it when I crank up some KoRn or Jethro Tull

 

1 Jbl ms-8 ,2 jbl ms-a1004,1 jbl ms-a5001,1 wicked cass magic box subwoofer enclosure,then add some nice morel drivers and run active .

 

Erm, Thank you for the reply but I'm a little confused by a couple of the things you said. I found the magic box, assuming you're running one? You like it yes?

The selection of JBL stuff is what's confusing me.. You've got what looks like 4 speakers there (havn't looked up the part numbers yet).

 

Ms-8 is a audio processor, ms-a1004 is a 4 channel amp,ms-a5001 is a mono amp.

buy 2 1004s and 1 5001

yes the wicked cass box is great,takes up very little space and thumps hard.

for drivers/speakers check out morel (IMHO THE BEST SPEAKERS FOR THE MONEY PERIOD),get 2 tweeters,2 four inch and 2 6.5 inch and 1 10 inch sub. remember to run active.

Run the tweeters and the 4s off one amp and the 6.5 off the other.run the sub off the 5001

The above system will cost the same or less than any system that is offered by mini specific vendors and will sound 1000% better.


You want your soundstage on the dash so just get speakers for the doors and tweeters for the a pillars,adding speakers where the factory 6x9 are located in the back seat just pulls the soundstage to the rear. I know you will ask why do speakers in the rear hurt,just think of it this way when you go to a concert do you face the stage or have your back to it?

The sub in the hatch will not cause any soundstage problems because the frequency is so low that it is hard for the human ear to pinpoint the direction of the sound.

You should do some research on diycaraudio.com

 

I'm actually not an audio idiot, I started doing installs in the late 90s but for the last 5-6 years I've been driving POS cars that I refused to put any money into... so I'm way behind the curve.

Sorry I responded the way I did when you posted, I couldn't look up anything cause I was responding on my phone.

The MS-8 will basically flatten my signal and negate that high pass filter issue so I won't need to run separate channels. If I remove rear speakers I'm assuming you just run the front and rear channels together or did you split front/rear up between the 4's and 6.5s?

Also, I'm guessing I"ll need to stip that connector people use for the channel swap as my point for the processor and then run the channels from the processor to the amps so I won't have to get to the head unit for a sub channel.

 

Yes you will pick up signal from the area that people do the channel swap just connect the front output to input on the ms-8.I would run the tweets and 4s off one ms-a1004 in stereo and then run the 6.5s off the other ms-a1004 mono and the sub off the ms-a5001

The ms-8 has 8 channels so you use that to send and split signal to the amps. you will end up using 7 channels of the 8,1 and 2 to tweeters,3 and 4 to 4s,5 and 6 to 6.5s and 7 to sub.

I like the jbl amps because of small footprint,clean sound, bags of power and X switching.

 

Well, since you're answering stuff (Thank you very much btw) I'll ask a couple others

For installation what direction would you go?

As inefficient as it woul dbe I'd like to have the hardware in the back, perhaps in a box that sits at the bottom of the boot and makes it flush with the seats when they're folded down. I imagine I could get all the hardware in there, build a couple of small computer fans into it patched off the remote power from the processor to one of the amps (Assuming the processor is auto sensing and turns on without a remote power conenction) so that the fans turned on when the amps turned on. It would require running a decent bundle of cable through a route I'm not sure of yet since I don't know what channels I have available to me in a mini.

And now that i think about it, putting a flat box in the boot might not be a good option with that CAS box since it appears to take up a little of the floor space. I'd prefer not to have to hide 3 boxes under the front seats, maybe in the storage panel on the other side of hte boot from the sub?

 

Buy the hatch area rightside panel for a mini equipped with hi-fi and you can stash everything in there.

If you get the jbl amps they are digital and run cool so you do not need fans.

2 signal wires to ms-8,power cable to 2 distribution blocks then power to ms-8 and the 3 amps then connect rca cables from ms-8 to amps and add speaker wire. 5 to 6 hour job including speaker install.use velcro to install magic box ,amps and ms-8.

 

well, time to start pricing it. I like the 'look' of the integral audio sub enclosure and how it flattens the storage space with the seats down but I don't like the price. If this is cheaper I'll jump on it.

Anyone here have the integral audio set up and care to weigh in on it's sound quality?

With this suggestion I'm gonna have to buy the bits and bobs, including the A pillars. Gonna go start pricing it now. Thank you very much 2009R56JCW

 

Here is the link for the integral audio setup and results....
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...and-sub-4.html

I will meet up with Mark sometimes to listen to it before ordering the gears.

 

If you shop around (ebay) it is close in price,if you only run 1 ms-a1004 with tweeters and 6.5s plus the ms-a5001 and the magicbox with all morel speakers it will be cheaper and still sound 1000% better.

IMHO most of the people on nam endorse snake oil type products that are over priced and lack performance.

 

So are you sayin the Integral Audios output isn't on par with the setup you're recommending? I want good, loud, quality sound. Like I said previously, I don't need to win competitions but I want the system to be the sort that when you crank it up it doesn't just sound like a 'nice factory' system. I want it to bump and i need that mid and high range to be clean and proper.

started pricing things and just the amps, processor and box end up putting me around 1800. That's not including the speakers or any of the wiring (btw, holy crap did high ga wire get expensive compared to the last time I bought it!) or other doodads I'll need.

I'm gonna keep doign some research on here and elsewhere, I really appreciate your time. Thanks It's deffinitely got me moving in the right direction.

 

I have never heard Integral Audios set up but have looked at the components and they DO NOT COMPARE to the system I have specced
out for you.

IMHO Integral audio system is ok, but for the money you can do much better on your own buying the latest tech and quality speakers instead of running crossovers paired to generic drivers powered by lowtech amps .I bet that if you bought all the components that Integral Audios offers thru ebay or a wholesale site on your own you would be looking at less than 30% to 40% of Integral Audios msrp.

I am not here to bash Integral Audio just saying do your research and you can build a system that surpasses what they offer for the same or less money.Integral Audios system seems to be marketed for the type of person who has little audio knowledge and needs something that is plug and play and I give Integral Audio credit for bringing a product to market for the typical mini owner that has very little skill or knowledge about car audio.

 

I agree with that assessment. the bonus of the system is the 'ease' of installation. Again, I appreciate the feedback, I'm going to start picking up some of the kit parts. The only thing I'm semi on the fence about is the box. I like the 'false floor' set up in the Integral Audio system so I might just make my own box if I can't find that particular set up ala carte soemwhere else.

 

Integral Audios box is nice but I would think it is very heavy vs the magic box and the depth would limit the options on drivers that would fit.

 

I have read most of this thread and have one question to the OP.

You say you have the "stock" radio well there were two types of "stock" radio Base or HiFi, and in some ways they require different set ups for aftermarket addons such as speakers and connections for a sub woofer.

All systems in the USA are "Boost" if they do not have NAV. Other countries have systems other than Boost but also have the Base or HiFi as well.

So my question is do you have the "Base" (no tweeters in the a-pillars) system or the "HiFi" (tweeters in the a-pillars)?

 

I have the non HiFi.

 

I just did the channel swap and... damn. huge difference. Still mediocre as far as car stereos go but before the swap it sounded like crappy computer speakers. Now at least it sounds like a half decent stock system.

 

I just ask as many of the newer people here dont know all the ins and outs of the early radio systems in the 2007-2010 cars. and that question makes a BIG difference as to how the system reacts to the channel swap change and how well new door speakers will work out.

Yes both the Base and HiFi systems are really not very good. Thats why my car has an Alpine PDX5 installed and uses Focal Speaker in the doors.

 

At this point I'm still gathering info obviously. I know the swap made a big difference and i'm happy with the sound "for now" but I'm not leaving it there.

I know the soundstage concerns mentioned by the other fellow in here regarding rear speakers is valid but with the type of music I listen to a whole car sound stage is not a bad thing. the low and 'real low' freqs take more space to get the full effect in your ear so having the sub in the boot makes sense but having the rears pushing the full band (especially since they are 6x9s and theres some NICE 6x9s out there) isn't a bad thing. Leaving the highpass filter on the fronts is also not that bad a thing imo since it'll filter out the freqs that will distort at high volume anyway and clash with the mid/high frequencies that you want coming out of a tighter, smaller more reactive cone.

So, based on that, I'm thinking A collumnupgrade for some tweeters to bring the sound 'up' a little. Replacing all the stock speakers with (Insert good components), adding a sub and the appropriate hardware.

Where i'm still a little shakey...

Speakers... so many different options, I know I want them to be bolt on, I don't want to modify the vehicle at all if possible. Just something that 'fits' in the factory ports.

Interfacing with the stock HU. I'm assuming I just need to get a line converter and I can jump off that connector I just did the channel swap on, but getting a sub signal? Can I pipe the whole thing into audio processor and actually get the 'subs' from the channel with the full band or is that goign to require getting to the HU directly?

Power... Not sure if I should try to run a new power line directly from the battery or tap in somewhere. Assuming I'll want to run straight from the battery given previous experience so that's going to be a hassle. I have no idea where I can route cables.

Routing cables... a different issue is the doors. I'm hoping I can leave the factory wires in place and just cut/splice off of them and not have to re-run new wires through the doors. If I do, I'll maybe just tape off the new wires to the old ones and use those to pull it through, imagine it's not any different than it was in my old accent (last car I modified about 7 years ago). I'm also hoping I can put the amps/processors in the back which I knwo will complicate my wiring job but I don't want them in the cab or under the seats.

Sub selection/enclosure. My current plan is to try and find a sub that matches the mounting depth of the integral audio sub and just get a higher quality speaker then copy the enclosure style of the integral audio set up. I might, if the specs don't work end up going with the CASS style box the above fellow suggested. I'm not as handy with wood as I am with fiberglass/metal so I'm on the fence here and would still love some suggestions I dont' want to lose a lot of trunk space but I do like the idea of the trunk being a flat loading area when the seats are down so that'll be my 'height' goal.

I appreciate the info so far, feel free to keep it coming

 

Can I pipe the whole thing into audio processor and actually get the 'subs' from the channel with the full band or is that goign to require getting to the HU directly?


Yes audio processor will handle sub level and output.

What ever you do please do not buy component speakers with crossovers,had focals in my mini then went active running morel and it was night and day diff in sound.hate to say it but the focal speakers sounded like chinese junk vs the morel speakers.

 

So I'm going to take 1 channel (front, rear, doesn't matter, preferably the front since it's not highpass filtered) and run it to the AP which will split the signal off and it looks like I can tailor each of the 8 channels for whatever I've got hanging off of them.

So assuming I wanted to do the A pillar, and keep the 6x9s I'd probably run out of channels with the set up as you described it. Since I'm using a channel per speaker and that set up would put me at 9 speakers. so I have to decide if I wanna push the highs through the 4s or ditch the 6x9s, or go with a bigger AP that has 10 channels.

Scaling the entire thing so tweeters had high, 4s had high-mid, 6.5s had mids-high low, 6x9s had mids-lows (slightly larger band than the 6.5s) and the sub channel doing what sub channels do would probably provide the big beefy sound I'm after. I'll have to eyeball some audio processors.

Still reading through the JBL documentation to find out things like whether or not it's auto sensing or if I need to find a remote tap for it. I'm hoping the AP I go with will be auto sensing so I can feed the amps remote on from the AP and not have to tap a circuit anywhere in the actual car outside of the speaker loom.

 

blargh, after reading some more what's the reasoning behind 1 channel per speaker off the AP? Is it for the audio balancing/timing set up that it goes through so it can balance each individual speaker? I'm thinking I could probably get away with running both tweeters off a single channel if that's it, the timing on them is less sensitive if I remember right.

 

MS-8 has will turn the amps on

I would skip the 6x9s,have been there and done it and was not happy with the sound or the rattles in the rear sidepanels that came from running high powered speakers in that location.

You should post your projected build in the ms-8 forum on diycaraudio.com ,I am sure someone from jbl will chime in and answer your questions.The guys from jbl helped me with my build and DID NOT try to push jbl speakers on me.

 

I'll head over there next. You're the man If you ever find yourself in the Dallas/Fort Worth area of texas lemme know and I'll buy you a beer (or a martini if that's how you roll...)