erm, diycaraudio.com isn't a real site.

 

Table dance?

 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/

They changed the name

 

Hrm, those forums look confusing, didn't see any vendor specific areas either. This isn't outside my ability to figure out from reading the info on the product so I'll just keep grinding away at it for now. Thanks again.

 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...essor-325.html

 

Wow, lot of info on that thread.

 

Far and away the single most important benefit of the Integral Audio systems is the vehicle-specific acoustic tailoring. The perfect-fit custom hardware and total stealth installation are secondary. Once you start to learn/understand exactly what the benefits are you will realize that you can not put together on your own anything that comes close for anywhere near the price. Our systems are not generic, and you couldn't buy them anywhere else if you tried. These are our designs, built to our specs, specific to the vehicles they are designed for. When we design a system for a vehicle, we bring the vehicle in, measure/model the electrical, acoustic, and physical parameters, import these into our design software, and design the components and crossovers based on this info.

Be careful who you listen to on the internet. Just because someone knows more than you doesn't mean they know much. There is much, much more to it than simply buying a few quality components and wiring them up. I'll give you an analogy for our systems vs. traditional aftermarket: It's like buying a custom-tailored suit vs. an off-the-rack suit. Buying the off-the-shelf components that were suggested is like buying a nice Tom Ford jacket, Armani pants, and Zegna shoes, but with the sizes all wrong and colors that don't match. Tuning the system yourself would be like attempting to tailor the suit on your own with needle and thread and kitchen knife. You aren't going to be able to come close to doing as well as a professional tailor with the proper tools.

The implementation is even more important than the components.

I'll give you two examples - one simple, one more complex. First, the subwoofer enclosure. If you want flat, accurate frequency and transient response then you can't just plug any subwoofer that fits into any enclosure. One 10" speaker is completely different from another, and the enclosure volume will have a dramatic impact on the sound. And the vehicle itself is different. A proper system needs to consider the vehicle, and then the speaker, and then the enclosure. This is basic stuff, but it still seems beyond the grasp of most folks who claim to know what they are doing.

A second, more complex (and important) example: the midrange in the MINI. What's the off-axis response of the off-the-shelf component you are looking at? Will it work in this location without excessive eq? What are the implications of using slow-slope vs. fast-slope crossovers given the vertical and horizontal separation in this case? What's the implication to Qts of using/not using the factory wiring? Most aftermarket 3-way systems are designed to be crossed over in the 500-600 Hz range, and have an Fs/Xmax that prohibits crossing them over low enough to suit the MINI without driving them non-linear at anything past moderate volume. If you think the MS-8's autotune will magically "fix" these issues for you, you are mistaken. Our midrange (as well as the other drivers) are designed specifically based on these questions, and that just isn't true of ANY other system out there.

I could continue on with EACH component - there are a myriad of critical design decisions that must be made at each step. You can purchase quality components, but unless you really know what you are doing you won't be able to replicate the sound quality of our systems. And just so we're clear, "knowing what you are doing" consists of Master's degree level knowledge of physics, acoustics, and electrical circuits along with significant experience. 99.9% of car audio "professionals" don't even qualify, much less the average "expert" dispensing free advice on the internet.

 

Part of what you're saying is rectified by the MS-8. It's not just plugging in random components (that's not what the guy responding primarily in this thread has suggested) the MS-8 does have an accoustic set up with a microphone. It might not be as completely tuned as your system but it does set up timing, balance, yada yada yada.

It also allows for a lot of after install tuning and set up with the LCD and remote for all the settings on the EQ and what not. I'm not saying it's beter than your system as far as sound, set up, or options but I don't know either of the systems and I'm checking the specs and settings on the MS-8 and other components offered.

What I see as the primary difference between your system and a build your own from scratch set up is it appears I have more control over the final product in a DIY where I set up an audio procesor. There may be an audio processor in your system as well that goes through the same set ups or is pre-configured in the box by you guys.. I don't know, I didn't see a full list of "Whats in the box" or model numbers (why I was confused about whether or not the rear speakers were included in the package, I didn't see them listed) I might have just missed that on your site but I did look around a bit.

The other catch being the power. I have the option of going 'bigger' on the amps and stuff in a DIY because your time is worth money which means thers some mark up on the whole package. Thats quite acceptable and what you offer is basically a plug and play system but with some research, bargain hunting, and pre-planning I imagine I could put a superior system together for the same price.

The decision making process for me includes these factors:
How much better of a system can I peice together for the same money?
How much extra work will said system be given it's peiced together?
Is my time worth more than the difference in cost/quality compared to the integral audio system?

If my time is worth more than the difference in price/work between the two systems then the Integral system wins my money. That's just how I operate.

You've already got a leg up in that I really like your sub enclosure set up and the reviews are almost all positive. I have no doubt you've got a quality product and it's worth every penny, I'm just researching to see if I can take those same pennies and maybe stretch em a little farther.

 

I appreciate your efforts to educate me on the MS-8, but I'm already very familiar with it. We have tested it and other similar processors extensively. Trust me, it does not do what the marketing materials suggest. It's not as simple as shipping a cheap $3 binaural mic along with a flawed algorithm.

Using the manual options WOULD give you the ability to get an equivalent result, but you don't have the tools or the knowledge to do that. THAT is the value in our system. It's not my time, trust me. It's the expertise, the equipment, the manufacturing quality.

I don't have the time to go round and round with you. Make whatever decision you like, but if your question is "can I get a better system for the same or less?", then the answer is an unequivocal no.

 

You seem to be getting a little upset.. I don't think I've said anything bad about your system, infact I'd say I've been pretty complimentary of it in general. I don't know everything in the box or what components are offered outside of the few peices you directly mention on the website (again, I might be missing something where it lists everything in the package on the website, if it's there I apologize for implying it's not available info). As for the end comment about not having the tools or knowledge to set something up, I understand you defending your product but don't do it at the point of coming off as aggressive against some one else... again, I don't think i've really said anything bad or implied that I thought your system was 'bad' or subpar in any way. Maybe take it down a notch, everything everyone has said about you in various posts and reviews has been overwhelmingly positive so I'm going to assume you're misinterpreting some of what i'm saying as a 'bash' against your set up or system which is the reason for the semi aggressive tone.

Your time or your expertise, whichever term you want to use is going to effect the price. I'm not saying what you offer isn't fully worth every red cent you have it listed for or perhaps even more than you have it listed for. I'm not questioning your abilities, quality or anything else... the fact that it's an engineered, "plug and play" solution means it's going to cost more than the raw components. Justifiably so. I came here looking for information about putting a system together from components and to figure out some of the base info about the Mini and how to keep the OEM stereo in place and still pull out some good sound.

I like what you've got going on, I appreciate that you've spent time to do what you've done, but I don't have enough detail about your system to make a real judgement call (and I havn't made any judgement calls yet) I'm shopping around and gathering info.

I do appreciate the information you've provided and assuming you're not irritated at me or something and feel like answering some more detailed questions about the soundstage+sub system I've got a number of them. Mostly models and the 'whats int he box' list of gear so I know exactly what's coming if I order one.

 

I am certainly not upset, not sure what gave you that idea. I'm not here to defend our products, simply trying to help you with your questions. The product itself, previous customers, and the fact that we can't keep them in stock say more than I can ever write here.

Saying that you don't have the tools or the knowledge to measure and tune a system to the level of what we do isn't meant as a criticism or a judgement, it is simply a statement of fact. Our electro-acoustic test and measurement system cost more than a new MINI. Our laboratory-calibrated microphones alone cost more than a new JBL MS-8. And the skill required to operate, implement, and interpret this equipment and measurements is an entire job in and of itself. There are a library's worth of books written on the subject. And that's just the electro-acoustic side. It would be absurd to expect or think that a consumer - even an extremely advanced one - would be able to come close to replicating that. Like I said before, 99.9% of "professionals" in car audio don't qualify. And that is precisely the point.

As far as what's in the box, take a look at the installation instructions.

At the end of the day though, you have the right idea in your other post - find someone with the Soundstage and go take a listen. Make as many A/B comparisons as you can or like. That will give you your answer.

 

Well thank ya Kevin.

I'm posting around in one of the local Mini groups tryin to find some one who has your system installed (DFW Texas) so I can give it a listen.

After looking through the link you gave me it appears you replace all the front speakers but leave the stock 6x9s in place. Does the install keep the default high pass filter to the 'rear' speakers in place and the stock just basically act as filler sound for the middle/rear of the car? I noticed after the swap if I crank it up too much those rear panels seem to be a little flimsy for any bass so I can understand that.

Also, is there an alternate method of getting an AUX in built into the amp by chance? I was thinking about wiring up my own Ipod connector so I can mount a Nano in the steering wheel where the steering wheel audio controls are. I can always dig into the dash and steel the current AUX input line for it but if theres another input somewhere in the integral audio system that'd be a perk.

 

Lance The MS-8 sucks for the mini soundsystem... Neil J a member here and a member on the Diyma forums had a really hard time getting it to work and center the image and this was after multiple sweeps, reversing polarity and measuring each time... I think MS-8 could use more refinement as it still isn't quite ready for prime time.

This is neil's build thread it is very long so be ready...
http://http://www.diymobileaudio.com...n-sds-pwk.html

if you dont want to change the deck i would say just suck it up and get the IA soundstage + sub... if that isn't your cup of tea I would say look into the Audison bit one or a mini Dsp.

 

after talking to some folks in my local area I'm going to most likely just go with the IA system. Just have to put a little money to the side after a couple of other projects. Also have to decide if I'm going to futz with the install myself or just take it to a pro and have it done whcih would obviously increase the cost for me.