Well, not really. But Bimmer magazine did a nice article comparison between an 05 mcs with no options and an 05 JCW (complete kit, engine, brakes, suspension, aero kit, 18in wheels).

If you want a whole synopsis, let me know, but for now I'll just restate the last few lines:

"If you are contemplating a new works-equipped Cooper S, however, we have some advice: Drive the car without any JCW equipment, at least for the first few thousand miles. You can always install the upgrades later (with full warranty intact) if you find the standard model too slow or unexciting. We suspect that you'll find the basic version so good that the works package will become entirely unnecessary."

They also found that they likes the 16 inch x-lites much better than the s-lites that they'd had on other test cars. Their general impression of the JCW was that the experience was a little less fun because the car felt less tossable and communicative. Add that to the almost 40,000$ price tag they ran up with all of the goodies, and the JCW had no shot at winning their hearts.

mb

 

So what you're saying is that the 05 JCW had 18" JCW wheels and the 05 MCS had the 16" x-lites for testing? Hmmmm that's fair. (sense the sarcasm)


I do agree that the MCS is a blast though. But for some people they want more. So really...they are not calling the JCW crap...they are saying the MCS is so good most people won't need (or for average people) will never use they extra power associated with the higher cost.

I think you should reconsider the title of your thread.....unless they say that in the mag.

Why are they testing 05's anyway.

 

Hmmm, I'll guess you'll have to post the whole article since I see nothing about the JCW being refered to as "crap". I really liked how you were able to deduce Bimmer's underlying meaning with nothing to support it

Although it's funny that their JCW cost $40k. I'd be more upset if I spent $35k on an MCS minus the JCW components...that would be stupid in my book.

 

BMW Australia were stupid enough to hand over the most over-specc'd mini ever to the media....the fools!

This is from a recent article in an Australian car magazine by the name of 'Motor'. Motor, historically, hasn't been a fan of the new mini from the start and often spend their time spanking on about big Aussie V8's. I read it for the first time yesterday and I wanted to reject it with all my soul....but there was still a little voice inside me that squeaked "they have a point you know..."

Anyway...read on...All values in Aussie Dollars, kW...

Oh yeah....when they mention 'Bang for your Buck', they are referring to an annual test that the mag does whereby they gather performance data on the track as well as other goodies, and scale them all based on the vehicles cost - ie. getting the 'Bang for your Buck Index'....

(please excuse spelling)...

MINI COOPER S JCW
"Like all Icons the MINI is expensive, and that's the problem"

"A new MINI S Chilli? $41,900. A John Cooper Works (154kW) tuning kit? $9859. 18 inch alloy wheels and tyres? $4835. Sport Brake Package? $1885. Sport suspension? $1430. Carbon Fibre trim? $3340.50. Seats (front)? $5590. Seats (rear)? $2185. Aero Kit? $2455. Bonnet Stripes and chequered flag roof decal? $487. Paying $73,957.50 for a MINI: Bloody Ridiculous.

It gets worse for MINI. There's a bevy of warriors sitting south of its $74k sticker price waiting to grab your attention and dollar, all are more powerful and all are more capable. Here goes: HSV ClubSport DTS ($71,975) (another link), Nissan 350Z 35th Anniversary ($67,990), FPV F6 Typhoon ($58,590), Mitsubishi EVO VIII ($61,990), Subaru WRX STi ($56,630). Wanna twist the knife? How about Alfa's 147 GTA, which in manual trim will set you back about $59,990, and even BMW's upcoming 195kW 130i is priced at a low, by comparison, $62k.

Now even the JCW loot-at-me stance justify its stupidly high price tag. Add to that its teeth loosening ride and the fine line it walks between corner entry understeer and exit oversteer and there's a shortage of positives in the ledger. It's not that the MINI Cooper S JCW is a bad car, it's just that it costs way too much. And any evaluation of its talent is going to be badly tainted by that fact.

Swathed, pointlessly, in expensive carbon-fibre, both inside and out, oru test car was an abject lesson in gimmicktry pushed to the extreme. And just to remind you why the thing costs so much every retro-fited bit is badged 'JCW' accordingly. That aside, the workstation is pretty good and while the big, round dials are a little too 'Toy Town' for some, they're nonetheless clear and relatively easy to read.

The too expensive seats are a bit of a pain in the a r s e, literally.

To adjust 'em, you have to open the door to get at the seat winder, they're too thinly padded and way too narrow around the shoulders.

This made worse by the lack of adjustment in the steering wheel, there's minimal height adjustment and nothing at all for the reach. As for the 'sporty' back seats, yep, they're comfortable alright, but not for anyone with legs.

IT's the engine that cops the biggest work, though. The JCW engineers slipped in a new supercharger and bigger pulley, fitted and a new cylinder head with hand-finished ports, all-new injection nozzles, a modified air-filter system and re-mapped the engine electronics. $9850, please.

AS a result the MINI now offers 154kW at 6950rpm and 245Nm at 4500rpm. Sadly, when we tested it recently at 'Bang for your Buck', the MINI could only manage a 7.17 sec sprint to 100km/h and a 15.34 down the quarter. Not bad, but not great.

What about the rest of it? Well, the gearbox is slick enough with plenty of weight and positive feel, but the clutch is dull and the fly-by-wire throttle takes too long to pick up in first gear.

Adding all the gold-gilded fruit hasn't helped the MINI, at all. But it has harmed it. For the money, there are plenty more fish in the sea."

 

They're actually saying its a waste of money i.e. Crap.

Sorry , but only a person with JCW would say that

 

This belongs in MINI Talk, don't you think?

 

Yes, it has been known for decades that pimping out even an exotic italian
ride with everything in the JCW (that's JC Whitney) catalog can turn it into a piece of crap. The point of offering all the pieces and parts separately is to allow drivers to optimize the function of the car to their personal styles and value perceptiions. I would venture to say that with enough understanding of the individual preferences of the Aussie rag writer, one could develop a JCWS that would appeal to that critic more than a stock MCS.

Keep in mind, after a certain point, the closer a car comes to full race tune, the less comfortable and fun to drive it becomes. The MCS is already close to that certain point. When I get ready to put it on the track I'll go alot further than the JCW suspension. Until then, the stock MCS Sport+ suspension is a great compromise of fun, comfort and handling.

As far as those other better value marques mentoned in this thread, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. GET YOUR EYES CHECKED!


JCW REGISTRY: www.jcw-registry.org

 

Based on what I read here, I agree w/ this synopsis. But then what do I know, I'm thrilled with my Cooper.

 

Why go with a 6 bedroom house when you're single type of deal here..

Nobody is saying the JCW is crap, just not what they want or a little out of the price range. Just like me, If I had the money I would do it..

 

Yes, I thought I made that clear when I said "not really". Do a search on "JCW is CRAP" and you'll see why I was trying (maybe unsucessfully) to be funny.

mb

 

Also, they never said that the comparison would be "fair". 207 hp vs. 168, stock suspension vs. custom tuned, intake and exhaust tuned for performance vs. stock, etc...

They just like to keep their money in their pockets and drive a more "tossable" car. When the e46 3 series came out, they enjoyed the underpowered 323 more than the 328.

I'll reiterate since the title is bothering people: Bimmer never said JCW was crap, they said it was "entirely unnecessary", and based on this board's history of funny, sarcastic threads titled "JCW is CRAP", I added it to my title.

mb

 

It's OK - I got it

 

I think that what they're saying is that the value proposition on the JCW is a little weak. Like anything else, there is the law of diminishing return. Getting the next tick of performance out almost always costs more than the last one. Objectively the JCW pack is a ~25% premium over the base car; it adds ~20% more HP, some added braking, but the rest of the car stays the same. Wheres the suspension upgrades? So is the car 25% better? For some it will measure up, for others it won't. Personally, had one not been forced to take the sport package, I might have done it had I got the car in under 30K with the other fluff I had to have. But I'd admit privately that it was for ego and perhaps waranty, rather than the value of the actual gains. A lot cheaper to add a pulley, chip and exhaust.

 

Yesssssssssssssssssssssssssss

All: let me know if you all want more details from the article...I emailed gabe at motoringfile, but the article is not online, so I'm not sure if he's going to publish a synopsis of it.

mb

 

Ya gotta admit that you smiled when you drove Percy-Bob . . .

 

Since the JCW package is a performance mod in and of itself, there's no reason why it can't stay here...

 

Just like only someone without one would say opposite .

There are LOTS of cars that are not worth the money they ask...does not mean it's "crap". Buying a Prada suit for $6k doesnot mean it's any better then a well tailored suit for $2k....does not make the Prada suit crap - depends on who you ask and who's wearing it. This whole topic seems to get really beaten to death. JCW is crap / JCW is not crap. No idea why people bash it so bad ....but don't answer beacuse I don't care. I payed for it - I love it. I would never bash anyone for buying something that maybe cost more then it should...if that were the case it would be a VERY long list.

What does bother me in this thread is the title. It is totally subjective to how the reader interprets the Bimmer article.

Bang for the buck - no, maybe not. Crap - no, it's not that either.

 

Have you figured out why yet?

 

I say whip it! Whip it good!

 

The only crap I see is what gets spun in these threads. It's getting old. I guess we'll stop seeing this tired old topic resurrected when:

 

Did you do the search for "JCW is Crap"? Do that, read the toungue in cheek sarcasm of the whole thread, and then see if you really want to complain about my interpretation. It was sarcastic, but what Bimmer said wasn't: the JCW kit, in THEIR OPINION, is "entirely unnecessary". That is the objective truth to what they subjectively wrote, and I was just sharing it.

If you have a problem with Bimmer, take it up with them! If you have a problem with my interpretation, ask for it first. I'd love a JCW car, but I can't/couldn't afford it. If you feel personally offended because everybody from the press or public doesn't love your car, get used to it. I apologize for not being completely clear on the context of the title.


mb

 

It's not CRAP, but it is CPAP (Cost Prohibitive Additional Performance). Personally, I believe when you reach the $30K threshold, you've over-invested. There are far more capable performers in that range. So for the pure performance minded, the MINI S becomes less desireable the more it costs (for $30K, I'd have an Audi A3 Sportback with Quattro and DSG). But if you love the MINI for its personality and character (like we all seem to do), then hopping it up becomes a passion, and it's less about what else you could have procurred. This message board (and MINI2) is a testament to the following. Doubt any other car make gets this much attention from such a dedicated, large audience.

 

Here are some more quotes from the article:

"...the JCW Cooper S is undoubtedly a quicker and more capable MINI..."

" As the brits like to say, this chassis (with JCW susp., wheels, brakes) has been thoroughly sorted - we really can't imagine how it could be improved in any significant way."

"The Cooper S with the JCW power kit is a very quick machine that can hold its own agaisnt heavyweights like the BMW 330i and Porsche Boxster."

See, they don't hate it, they just wouldn't BUY it Oh, and they certainly are not bashing it, and nor was I.

mb

 

 

Not to nitpic, but I am confused by the comment. From what I got out of what he said is they were comparing a fully loaded JCW to a standard S and in that case that is the wheels each car would have right?

Now if that was the case, it may have been a better argument to take some JCW bits, perf mods suspension mods, and leave the others stock since as seen by Tit's comments, you can really blow the price up on a cooper s if you add every JCW thing possible.