Yea, you're exactly right. The entire point of the test was to have the cheapest MCS against the most expensive MCS to see if the $ spent = more driving pleasure in their eyes. So of course it follows and makes sense that the base MCS had the x-lites on it and the JCW had the 18in. JCW wheels.

They made no pretense of a fair fight, or that it was a fight at all!

mb

 

But wait, who actually uses the 18" JCW wheels???? (except for the Brits who seem to love them)

Except for Gabe and I think he says he takes them OFF in the winter.

I thought it was consensus opinion the 18" are not good for xcross, track OR normal driving?

 

"A new MINI S Chilli? $41,900. A John Cooper Works (154kW) tuning kit? $9859. 18 inch alloy wheels and tyres? $4835. Sport Brake Package? $1885. Sport suspension? $1430. Carbon Fibre trim? $3340.50. Seats (front)? $5590. Seats (rear)? $2185. Aero Kit? $2455. Bonnet Stripes and chequered flag roof decal? $487. Paying $73,957.50 for a MINI: Bloody Ridiculous.

so how does the aussie dollar compare to u.s. currency?

 

18 inch alloy wheels and tyres? $4835. ... Seats (front)? $5590. Seats (rear)? $2185. Aero Kit? $2455. Bonnet Stripes and chequered flag roof decal? $487.

Well you cant buy the seats in the US, the rest are NOT JCW parts but standard MINI parts. As to the wheels, they seem to be popular on mini2 with the Brits but I would imagine that few ppl really consider them since they are lead weights.

 

I have no clue who actually uses them or if Bimmer made some attempt to find out in order to test a car that a lot of people have. I guess your line of reasoning would also lead to these questions: Who has a 40,000$ MCS, and who has EVERY JCW option? My best guess is that the answer to all three is that, relatively, there are not a lot of those cars driving around, just as there aren't many MCSs driving around with NO options. Does that negate the validity of the comparison? That's up to us to decide for ourselves.

mb

 

Actually, it might. I would imagine speccing any cars has a normal curve. If they compare a fully loaded car vs a stripped car, its not fair since they are both at the end of the curves.

I would venture to say if you look around at JCW cars in the US, my bet is less than 1% have the 18" wheels and they probably know they are bling (which is OK).

 

My 04 JCW came in at a tick over $26k. Went for the $750 "upgrade" to 05 specs, picked up a barely used set of JCW brakes for $600, and added an H-sport Comp bar for $220. And, yes, instead of replacing my runflats at 30k, slapped on a slightly used set of 18" Centerline RPMs and Toyos - 36 lbs and $200 a corner. Under $29k total and rocking the muthaf~cking house under warranty, y'all! If this thing isn't "tossable" then I am in need of a massive recalibration.
My car is a complete piece of CRAP,and it is awesome!!

 

thats cool and a lot lighter than the JCW wheels

 

Yep, Xalfa, your car is CRAP! Gosh, you're so mean

I don't know if the range the article presents negates its validity. It never mentions any intent to report on more than 1% of the MINI population, rather, it wanted to find out if, in this case, money buys fun. I'm certain the good people at Bimmer (really an excellent publication) had a _hunch_ that most of their readership would fall somewhere in between the two extremes, thus giving everyone something to walk away smiling about. Why were they so clearly against the JCW? Money. How would they answer Xalfa's example of having a JCW car for 27K? They'd prolly call him a smart man for upping the power, keeping the costs down, and getting rid of the heavy wheels.

Remember, this is a BMW publication. If you're just a MINI enthusiast, your money is well spent on other magazines, and they don't pretend to assume that their readership is a MINI savvy crew. Actually, I see them as allies in the battle (read Roundel to find the battle) to earn the MINI respect from some of the BMW croud.

Chow4us, you said "Actually, it might. I would imagine speccing any cars has a normal curve. If they compare a fully loaded car vs a stripped car, its not fair since they are both at the end of the curves."

And you're completely right, taking extremes of a population does not represent that population, but they aren't trying. They said, here's the cheapest, here's the most expensive, here's which we like better and which we'd spend our money on.

Makes you wish YOU had a magazine, don't it?

mb

 

You know the reality, there's no replacement for displacement. Most things you do to the MINI to tweak more power adversely affect service life, and really don't do much for power at the low end and midrange (where it's needed most). If you really want a more powerful MINI, then you really need a bigger motor. I wish MINI could find a way to pump up the motor to 1.8L and fit a DOHC, and AWD while they're at it. MINI should be trying to make a WRC challenger.

 

Unfortunately MOTOR Magazine don't see things as we do. BMW offered them a car to test and that's what they got....The car will be compared with all the other cars in it's price range - and lets face it - a fully decked out mini dosen't stand a chance against cars in the same $$$ catagory (not in Aussie terms anyway - your mini's a significantly cheaper than ours). MOTOR tries to be objective in the "Bang for your bucks" competition - by taking the cost of the car and comparing it to track times, breaking distances etc... and then comparing that outcome against other cars in their price range....

Sure - very few people spec a mini like that....but it's what Motor Mag were given - so that's what they based their findings on. I think it's BMW's fault - they were foolish enough to give them such a car. Perhaps if they gave them an MCS with just a JCW kit on, they'd be talking about a AUD$50k car, not a AUD$73k car.....the assessment would be a bit more favourable...it would bring the mini down into the golf GTi/Peugot 206 range - which is where is should be...

remember - crap in = crap out....

Oh by the way....try http://www.xe.com/ to see the $$ comparison....

According to that:

73,000.00 AUD
Australia Dollars = 54,909.93 USD
United States Dollars 1 AUD = 0.752191 USD
1 USD = 1.32945 AUD

(oh...and if you think that's crazy - you should see how much mini's cost in Singapore!)

 

Excellent observation, MODDers take note. Most car companies have researched extensively their mapping software to give you good street characteristics with the engine. Most modified engines when you see the dyno picture has pushed peak horsepower at the expense of dips and valleys in the torque curve somewhere. A early, level and long lasting torque curve is the goal I want. Remember HP is nothing but a mathematical function of torque to rpm divided by 5250. Most increased HP figures are reached by pushing the redline of the motor up. MODs are an experiment that may well make the car harder to drive, not easier. First axim is always true, NO REPLACEMENT for DISPLACEMENT.

 

Personally, to increase your on track competitiveness (only) I think your $$ are best spent on tires, suspension wheels and brakes. You feel those differences instantly and the ability to get on brakes HARD and set up your turn at the last moment can never be undervalued. Depends on whether your course is curvy or straights, suspension helps a lot on the former, revving higher and staying in the HP peak for the latter.

 

Or said the old drag racers way

"There Ain't NO Substitute for Cubic Inches"

Anon

HP is really only made in the engine and except for new heads, everything I see for MINIs is bolt on power.

 

Of course those that chase HP as a grail aren't all racers. And those guys don't care about time and skill. Just a raw number that says I got the biggest.


Paul

 

Mapping software? You mean that program that BMW cannot get right no matter how many times they reflash our cars? Yo-yo, stumble, flat spot, cold start problems, etc. If they put that much time and research into our mapping software they ought to fire the morons who apparently wasted both.

 

It is for all of the above reasons that I haven't modded yet, save for the JCW intake. I intend on attending BMW CCA driver's schools starting this spring, and I understand that even in its stock form, this car has higher limits than my skills do.

The mod bug is so hard to resist; I love what Dinan puts on the market. Maybe my plan will be: Intake, JCW exhaust (I love a quiet exhaust), then suspension tweaks as I get good enough to actually use them. When I bought the car, I had planned on the whole JCW tuning kit at some point, and now I'm definitely not considering it.

mb

 

The Forum is about,
"MCS Intakes, Exhausts, Pulleys, Headers, Throttle Bodies, and any other modifications to the drivetrain"

This was posted about a Magazine article. The synopsis of which was implied cost of effectiveness per comparison with other vehicles. I just don’t see a connection with the performance forum.

 

 

 

I really would like to see some valid statistics on this problem. Lots of subjective experiences talked about but I would want to know what are the actual numbers of folks and from which years have suffered from this? Did they all have certain options, autos, DSC's, S's over MC's? I know the "throttle by wire" is touchy, is there any chance that could explain some of these symptoms? Did BMW develop the mapping software for this motor or have they just been trying to modify what came with the Daimler-Benz Brazilian motor design? JUST the FACTs..?

 

LMAO. I agree. Sorry if I started something with my post.:impatient Who cares already.

 

I would do the following:

1. Search for Yo-yo, stumble, flat spot, etc. to get and idea how long these DME problems have been going on and a rough idea on how many people have been affected.

2. Ask your dealer how many DME versions have been released since 2002.

Keep in mind, prior to the MCSa being released, all these problems were being reported. The "a" resulted in it's own unique DME maladies............

The CVT also has it's own software "quirks".

 

That's why I'd like to see some hard numbers. It probably is proprietary to BMW.

The first search will end up again being subjective NOT objective. The second is why I asked who and where did the original mapping come from, was it always BMW/MINI or did it originate with Daimler Benz? Wouldn't be the first time two technologies that originated in different places had a hard time communicating with each other. Was it Benz who started the FI and then BMW decides to troubleshoot it? Or has it always been BMW's technology? Who knows this?

 

was that a horse or a donkey?