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Winter seems to be about over, my new TD wheels should come soon and get wrapped in summer rubber. What I really want after that is some suspension upgrades. I seem to be somewhat of a minority in my requirements/desires, though, and am having a hard time picking something that will fit them.
Basically, I'm looking for (in order of importance):
Improved cornering stability
Minimal reduction in ride comfort
Minimal added NVH
Minimal lowering (ideally, no less than 1-1.25")
Full replacement of springs and struts (ie. no spring only options)
I could care less about height adjustment, but am not against having it to get the right setup. I don't really care if whatever option includes upper strut mounts with camber adjustment.
Most of the options I see lower much beyond what I really want. The obvious options seem to be KW V1/JCW Pro and Bilstein B12/B14. I'm not sure BC Racing is an established enough brand for me. The forge setup looks a little more aggressive than I want. The minimum drop on the H&R kit is more than I want.
I'm thinking an NM swaybar will probably go on with whatever I end up grabbing. Since MINI was happy enough with the KW V1 setup, it seems like the JCW Pro or V1 are the safest options. With a name like Bilstein, though, those seem hard to ignore too - especially at like 2/3 the price.
Anyone have any advice to help sort through the madness? Am I missing any obvious options? I'm hoping to have whatever it is on-hand in the next couple weeks to get installed when my wheels and tires are here.
You've answered your own question. The best bang-for-the-buck handling performance mod you can make is a heavier RSB and performance struts. The Bilstein's are highly regarded as are KONI FSD.
For the coilovers I've installed a bunch of them and out of them all I can tell you we liked the KW V2 best for the quality and ride. They gave the car back the soul the earlier MINIs had, but didn't have a harsh ride. https://www.waymotorworks.com/kw-var...overs-f56.html
I don't think the V2s impacted the ride in a negative way at all. I do say they firmed it up and made it more MINI like as the F cars are very soft and BMW like. But it still rode great and handled even better. I also set the valving in the middle rather than full soft.
The V1 has no valve adjustment, that is why I like the V2 better as you can dial it in much better, and get more performance if you want to stiffen it up.
Yeah I'd say between the KW and Bilsteins I feel the KW did ride a little better. I think it's more the springs used between the two.
You've answered your own question. The best bang-for-the-buck handling performance mod you can make is a heavier RSB and performance struts. The Bilstein's are highly regarded as are KONI FSD.
Are you suggesting aftermarket struts with the stock springs?
Originally Posted by WayMotorWorks
I don't think the V2s impacted the ride in a negative way at all. I do say they firmed it up and made it more MINI like as the F cars are very soft and BMW like. But it still rode great and handled even better. I also set the valving in the middle rather than full soft.
The V1 has no valve adjustment, that is why I like the V2 better as you can dial it in much better, and get more performance if you want to stiffen it up.
Yeah I'd say between the KW and Bilsteins I feel the KW did ride a little better. I think it's more the springs used between the two.
Well, that's encouraging. They're not much more expensive than the V1 TBQH. Is the rear valving adjustment accessible whithout tearing the car apart?
Does that ride quality comment apply to the Bilstein Cup Kit and Coilovers, or just one of them? Cup kits are, in general, ideal for me since I don't care at all about height adjustment. They're mechanically less complex and usually cheaper. I'd even go for a well matched a set of springs and aftermarket shocks too. I just only see that one kit from Bilstein as the only available pre-assembled setup.
I see that MiniMania has some pre-fab kits pairing Bilstein HD and Bilstein Sport dampers with NM springs. The NM springs drop a touch more than I want, and those kits seem to include fluff I don't want, but that seems like another option.
The Bilstein Cup Kit seems to just be Bilstein B12 (HD) shocks with Eibach Pro Kit Springs, which seems like it should ride pretty well and hits the drop target I'm trying to hit. Those springs (or maybe the AC Schnitzer) plus KONI FSD or Sport dampers seem like a reasonable option as well. Unfortunately, this stuff must be so new that it seems like no one actually has any of these combos so it's hard to know how they really ride.
Are you suggesting aftermarket struts with the stock springs?
Well, that's encouraging. They're not much more expensive than the V1 TBQH. Is the rear valving adjustment accessible whithout tearing the car apart?
Does that ride quality comment apply to the Bilstein Cup Kit and Coilovers, or just one of them? Cup kits are, in general, ideal for me since I don't care at all about height adjustment. They're mechanically less complex and usually cheaper. I'd even go for a well matched a set of springs and aftermarket shocks too. I just only see that one kit from Bilstein as the only available pre-assembled setup.
If you are going to stay with stock springs the FSDs would be the shock of choice. But using lowering springs you can't run them with FSDs as they are not designed for lowering.
For the KW V2 the rebound adjust in the rear is still at the top of the shock so you have to pull the shock out. That is why we always start with it in the middle to minimize time adjusting.
I'm just saying I liked the ride quality of the KW V2. The Bilsteins I thought were harsher.
Originally Posted by mattkosem
I see that MiniMania has some pre-fab kits pairing Bilstein HD and Bilstein Sport dampers with NM springs. The NM springs drop a touch more than I want, and those kits seem to include fluff I don't want, but that seems like another option.
The Bilstein Cup Kit seems to just be Bilstein B12 (HD) shocks with Eibach Pro Kit Springs, which seems like it should ride pretty well and hits the drop target I'm trying to hit. Those springs (or maybe the AC Schnitzer) plus KONI FSD or Sport dampers seem like a reasonable option as well. Unfortunately, this stuff must be so new that it seems like no one actually has any of these combos so it's hard to know how they really ride.
Ignore the pre-fab kits as they are put together to sell multiple parts at one time and you don't need fluff.
If you want ride quality I'd avoid just lowering springs as you loose so much shock travel with just springs the shocks don't do enough of the work and give you that harder ride.
Ignore the pre-fab kits as they are put together to sell multiple parts at one time and you don't need fluff.
If you want ride quality I'd avoid just lowering springs as you loose so much shock travel with just springs the shocks don't do enough of the work and give you that harder ride.
Agreed. They do include endlinks for the bar. Are those a good idea with the bigger bar.
Yeah, I'd definitely not be interested in just springs anyways I've had enough half assed spring only setups on cars in the past that I don't want that. Very minimal lowering and upgraded dampers still seems like a good route. The AC Schnitzer springs seem to have the smallest drop I've found, but I haven't found a soul running them. I have not come across much mentioning the Eibach Springs either, though, with or without Bilstein dampers. Haven't found report of anyone running stock springs with upgraded dampers either - therein lies my delima. I haven't come across anyone running what I'm really aiming for.
I think I'm leaning toward the B12 setup. Still haven't found much on the combo. I found a post in a German forum (https://www.mini-f56-forum.de/index.php/Thread/6431-Bilstein-Fahrwerk-B12-PRO-KIT-die-günstige-Alternative-zum-Gewindefahrwerk/). It implies that they're well matched and sporty but not too firm. It seems like they result in the same 25-30mm that the AC Schnitzer springs target. I also found something on a Japanese forum suggesting that there isn't "deterioration in ride quality" (http://dealer-blog.mini.jp/mini_ota2/2016/06/miniotabilsteinb12forf55f56.html). Seems about right based on that, and seems in-line with what would be expected of a street focused setup. It seems like the B12 kits for earlier generations were well liked too.
Yeah like he said a rear sway bar upgrade will help get rid of some understeer and help your cornering. My friend has the F56 and I think she needs a RSB big time.
Yeah like he said a rear sway bar upgrade will help get rid of some understeer and help your cornering. My friend has the F56 and I think she needs a RSB big time.
Well, my car is unexpectedly at the shop. I ordered that stuff with second day air shipping. It's seeming like it may be installed sooner than I originally planned.
I think I'm set on it. I'm tentatively planning on:
Bilstein B12 Cup Kit
NM 25mm Sway Bar
NM Endlinks
I figure the bar on the softest or mid setting should be a start.
--Matt
I did the KW V2 with NM SB and endlinks. It's a fantastic combo and now leans on over steering even on the SB soft setting. I noticed significant improvement in front tire wear from spirited driving. The ride is a little harsh but I do have the rear dampeners a bit firm. You have to take the shock off to adjust so I just leave it firm.
Well, the order of the Bilstein parts ended up getting cancelled because of some sort of supply issue, so I'm taking that to be a sign. I'm going to put the bar and links on Friday or Saturday most likely, then decide if I want more from there.
Not sure which setting I'll use on the bar. I read a post from someone with stock suspension liking it full stiff, so I'm considering it.
Well, the order of the Bilstein parts ended up getting cancelled because of some sort of supply issue, so I'm taking that to be a sign. I'm going to put the bar and links on Friday or Saturday most likely, then decide if I want more from there.
Not sure which setting I'll use on the bar. I read a post from someone with stock suspension liking it full stiff, so I'm considering it.
--Matt
I have the NM SB on the medium setting and love it. I've read that the stiff setting is great for track duty but not so much for daily roads. I haven't personally tried the stiff setting but imagine a little chassis flex is a good thing for imperfect roads.
I have the Sport Suspension with NM springs and I'm running an NM RSB w/endlinks on the firmest setting. It handled like a champ on the Dragon and on the country roads around home. With the CS Big Pair, NM Strut Brace, and 4 point roll bar I don't think I have to worry about chassis flex.
I have the Sport Suspension with NM springs and I'm running an NM RSB w/endlinks on the firmest setting. It handled like a champ on the Dragon and on the country roads around home. With the CS Big Pair, NM Strut Brace, and 4 point roll bar I don't think I have to worry about chassis flex.
That's reassuring. You don't find the car to be too tail happy with it full stiff? I see lots of recommendations for softest or medium, and it looks trivial to adjust (ie. pop a wheel off and move the link to another hole), but I've gone full stiff on big bars on past cars without issues.
The billet bushing mounts look pretty slick, as do the teflon sleeved links. The weight difference between the 22mm solid and 25mm hollow bars sealed it. Definitely seems like a solid route.
I decided to install the swaybar this weekend. I'm partway through the removal job so far. Next steps are the 4 subframe bolts. So far so good. Only bit by lack of care on one side, where I supported the shock rather than the control arm with a jack. It didn't pop far fortunately.
After doing jobs like this on 50k+ mile cars in the past, the lack of rust sure seems nice.
Haven't yet decided which setting on the bar I'll choose. I guess that'll be down to the wire!
Have the new bar back in and subframe and suspension connected again.
Tips for that part:
Don't be alarmed that the subframe appears to be away from the unibody when putting the rear two bolts back in. The bolt tube extends beyond that point.
When reattaching the subframe, a jack and installing the rear two bolts makes the job much easier than trying to fiddle the subframe into place by hand.
All back together and on the road. Even in spite of the need to drop the rear subframe, this was a pretty straight forward job. NM's instructions are adequate and detailed. Wheels off to wheels on, the job took about 2 and a quarter hours in a normal 2 car garage with basic hand tools. Jacking the car up from the rear central jacking point (which I bridged with a strong 2x4x12 piece of wood) was the trickiest part to figure out from start to finish, and mostly spent on the interwebs.
The bar is wonderful. I started on full soft for now. I detect no added noise nor any noticeable degredation in ride quality. The rear kicks out like a proper MINI now. Need to get those snow tires off ASAP. 10/10 would do again!
Jacking the car up from the rear central jacking point (which I bridged with a strong 2x4x12 piece of wood) was the trickiest part to figure out from start to finish, and mostly spent on the interwebs.
Can you elaborate on the jacking procedure? Did you place the wood under the door and jack from there? Then place jack stands at the forward and rear jacking positions?
03-25-2017, 07:46 PM
