Hey guys. total Mini newb here.

i had a few questions regarding the 2012 JCW hardtop. I test drive a MCS today and loved it and i am trying to decide which to get; a MCS or the JCW.

here are my questions/issues...

1) the brakes on the JCW... i have read a few places on the internet that they are brembos and i have seen a few pics that say JCW on the calipers. are they bremobs? if not what are they? are the rotors 1 or 2 pieces?

2) are the JCW brakes as good as an after market big brake kit? Brembo or Wilwod, etc...

3) how much more HP can the JCW transmission handle vs the MCS?

4) what kind of suspention does the JCW have?

5) is the JCW suspension better or as good as aftermarket coilovers, swaybars, etc...?

6) how much HP can the stock turbo make?

7) how much HP can the stock block handle?


my goal is to get one of these cars and have fun with it until the warranty expires then i want to build the car/motor for some big power and some track work.

one or my main questions/concerns is it worth paying the extra money for the JCW if i am going to upgrade everything?

thanks everyone in advance.

 

Hi sugarspunz,

I have an MCs but was having the same dilemna, ended up with the MCS but still wish it was a JCW. So I'll answer from what I recall as I was cross-shopping the two.

I'll answer what I can, but I'm sure others with more knowledge can chime in with more info.

1) The front brakes are brembos, the rears are MINI brakes painted red.

2) I think they are actually a really good value compared to some of the other Big Brake kits out there. The Wilwoods for instance actually have smaller rotors/calipers than the stock brmebos on the JCW. The biggest difference with the aftermarket kits is that they will generally have stainless steel lines instead of the rubber hoses the JCW brakes have.

3)I'd assume the JCW transmission can handle quite a bit more considering that it has a beffed up clutch, transmission and engine internals over the MCS.

4) The stock JCW has a basic suspension tuned to deal with the JCW motor/transmission weight. It's not the sport suspension or JCW suspension.

5/6/7 Can't speak to these, but there are a number of people with tunes, FMIC's, downpipes, exhausts and intakes running just fine. I'm honestly not sure how much use these really are on a FWD car that has no mechanical limited slip. It starts to get to a point of diminishing returns on the HP front when you can't put the power down, but that's just my 2 cents. I'm in favor of using lighter wheels and ditching the runflats to reduce unsprung weight.

Overall, the JCW will give you a stronger platform to mod from. There is certainly a big premium to be paid over a JCW but you do get quite a bit in terms of improved parts (esp considering the brakes/intake/exhaust/clutch/transmission). All comes down to what kid of options you want in the car and whether it'll be a daily driver or weekend only kind of car.

 

thanks so much for the 411. back in 2003 i had a Nismo 350z and ended up changing out most of Nismo parts that i paid extra for. i am trying not to make the same mistake again.

i will have to do some research to see if there are 2 piece rotors available for the JCW breaks. my Z came with the brembo brake kit and i changed out the stock 1 piece rotors with stoptech aero 2piece rotors and it made a huge difference in feel. the 2piece rotors where a good 5+ pounds lighter than the stock rotors.

i am guessing a quaife LSD would sort out any issues with FWD and the big power. someone please correct me if i am wrong.

 

No worries. Wish I could contribute more. On investigating a bit more, it looks like the JCW brakes are just the standard once piece rotors. You can get the 2 piece ones with the Wilwood or Stoptech kits for an additional charge.

The 2 piece rotors + lighter wheels (most of the stock wheels come in between 23~26 lbs) and replacing the extra heavy runflat tires could net you a huge savings on weight at each corner. Depending on what you're looking for in terms of stopping power, it might be worth noting that the stock brake system on the current generation MCS (R56) is the same as the JCW system on the previous MCS (R53). If you lighten each corner by a significant portion (figure you can probably lose around 12 lbs between wheels, tires and rotors) you'll net a huge gain in stopping power by adding stainless steel lines and more aggressive pads alone. If you are looking for 4 piston calipers then you will definitely have to go for the BBK.

The quaife LSD would probably do worlds of good to help putting down more power, but in the end, its still a FWD car. MINI's myriad of electronic aids (DSC, DTC, eLSD and the new one built into the electronic steering to combat torque steer) might get a bit screwy with that kind of addition, but I'm sure the aftermarket has its work-arounds here.

 

The stock JCW brakes are more than enough on the street for 99.9% of drivers. They actually perform very well on the track too. I did a couple of hard track days are they were fine. I was also not standing on the brakes with street tires either. Went to sticky Nitto NT01's and moved the pads up to Carbotech X10's front and X8's rear. Loud on the street. horrible when it is cold out. Did great for 1.8 track days. The last session I decided to stand on them and go for my best time. Shaved 2 seconds off but glazed the front and the rears slightly. Jan has a new pad coming out which I will try next. X12's would be just ugly on the street so it looks like I will be swaping pads for track days now. I will give Jan's a try first. Its all about heat and the sticky tires make the brakes work hard.

 

gotcha. i am sure the JCW breaks are great however for $2,264 (which is the cost for the JWC brakes according to Mini USA) i can get an aftermarket BBK for roughly the same price.

 

In all honesty you can make an MCS out brake, out handle and out power a JCW for far less than the gap in price of the 2.. thats my .02.

 

back to the motor and transmission.

does anyone know how much power the MCS and the JCW can handle relatively safely before internals are needed?

i understand the JCW has a stronger clutch but is the actual transmission stronger or can it handle more power than the MCS trans?

again thanks all for the good info. i really appreciate it.

 

that is what i am trying to figure out. looks like you are 100% correct.

love your mini by the way.

 

So basically with the current options on the market you should never exceed the power limits of the stock motor.

I am shooting for 280WHP stock motor with my K04 and w/m and I think I will be just fine. I have yet to see someone bend a rod on stock internals.

I also have 90k on a stock clutch and transmission.. sure ive changed out my fluids but i have been tuned for like 30K miles and have had NO failures on the car, motor, trans.

And thank you!

 

If you look up some of the background info on the JCW you'll find a bit more of what you're looking for. The '09+ JCW has more internals sourced from the MINI Challenge car, so it can definitely handle more tha the MCS. I don't know about the transmission. Here is the link to Motoringfile's take on the JCW. This was when it first came out in 2009 so there are some changes, like the aerokit coming standard.

http://www.motoringfile.com/2008/11/...ory-jcw-coupe/

 

Only the pistons are different not the rods..

 

sounds good man. ideally i would like to push 350hp but i am guessing a built motor will be required.

are their after market ECU's for the Mini? the HKS FCON V-pro is very popular with the Z crowd for those who can A) afford it and B) who want the most stable tune.

i come from an Japanese car background so i am learning a lot here.

 

No one has hit 350WHP yet on an R56.. I dont even think they have hit 300WHP on an R56 yet.

your turbo options are:
Alta turbo - WAY OVERPRICED
JCW Turbo - Stock on a JCW or an overpriced swap on an MCS.
Hybrid K04 - $600 to have done and makes more power than all the turbos listed above.

Jan@RMW is the BEST TUNER for MINIs.

There is discussion of a future standalone for the R56 but not currently.

You dont need a built motor at all.. there really is no point to it with the current parts on the market.

You cant run garret turbos, you cant run EFR turbos, etc.. options are limited.

 

who or what is RMW?

i heard from a few friends that the guys are ABF Tech are pretty awesome. thoughts?

 

again coming from a Japanese car background i assumed just add all the bolt on's, larger fuel pump, bigger injectors, bigger turbo, ECU, and a built motor and the sky is the limit.

guess this is not the case?

 

Revolution Motor Works.

They create the best and the fastest MINIs from their shop.

Jan owns it and is a great person to work with.

I thought ABF went under lol.

http://www.revolutionmotorworks.com/

Aftermarket Injectors dont exist.
Aftermarket fuel pumps dont exist - we are direct injection not standard injection. Fuel system should hold up to 300whp.
Built motor completely pointless and overpriced. - Run the stocker till it blows. Always check your oil levels.. thats how everyone blows up.

 

so the R53 is the older turbo Mini right? pre-2010? or was it the supercharged Mini?

 

No R53 is the first gens - supercharged up until 2006 then in 2007 they went to turbo R56s.

Atleast in hardtops.

 

gotcha. thanks again man for all of your insight. i really appreciate it.

sounds like i the MCS for me would be best most economical choice. should be ordering one in late april early may. cant wait.

 

Youll have a ton of fun. But be careful I am not sure there is even tuning out for the '11+ yet.

Better to find like an 09-10 for a good price and go from.

I bought my 07 in '11 for $17k with 40k miles.. window sticker was $28,500.

So if you are in the market to shop around for a low mileage one you could probably get a good deal and one with a warranty.

 

If you are ordering a new one, don't get excited to start modding it because they cannot be tuned yet. If you want to mod and have fun, buy an '07-10 like Boosted_Mini said.

Internally, pistons are your only real problem. Run much more than 20psi and you're asking for trouble....been there done that. No matter what you decide to do to it, you need to put a water/meth kit at the top of the list. It should allow you to stay relatively safe on stock internals.

If you want to buy a Mini and have fun modding it, take my advice and get an R53. You can easily attain your 350hp goal...argueably much easier than on an R56. I can rattle your ear off for hours about the R56, PM if you ever have any questions....

 

i am actually considering that too. however even if i purchase a 2012 i wont do anything major to the motor until the warranty is expired. so i would assume that in 3 years the tuning market will be larger.

first mods will be suspension, BBK, wheels and tires. now that i am a bit older i am firm believer that when tuning a car it is best to start from ground up.

 

why specifically cant they be tuned yet and the 07 to 10 can?

 

You most likely dont really need a BBK either, I mean I am looking into one here just cause i can not that i need one. I have tracked my car many times and I just run stoptech rotors and stoptech street performance pads and they work great.

ECU changes and in '10+ they added VVT into the mix on the intake/exhaust. I know the 07 MCS has VVT but only on one side.

350HP on an R53 takes a lot of money to do though. Power is much easier to obtain on the R56 just the amount of power you can make is more limited currently.