Howdy,

I'm torn between not getting the JCW and getting the JCW. Can I get some advice is the JCW worth the cost for the preformance? How easy is it to continute to modify your Mini with the JCW? Any advice would be helpful.

Thanks,
Dd.

 

The JCW kit is expensive, but you get the benefit of a factory warrantied kit.

You can easily get the same sort of increased power through the aftermarket for about 1/3-1/2 the price.

So my opinion is that the JCW is overpriced but still a slick and special thing. If you can afford it, slap it right in there and enjoy the warranty. If you want to save some money or get extra mods along with the added power, then go aftermarket.

 

To answer your question exactly as you state it, NO it is not worth the cost for the performance. You can get the same horsepower rating for about $1800 or less. Yes you can continue to upgrade the Mini. Although if you upgrade some items like the ECU or the exhaust then it is just replacing items that you bought for the JCW kit.

The warranty is nice, but most people have already put on the 10k-20k of there Mini so they are only seeing part of the warranty saved. Plus I believe that the JCW warranty is only good for 2yrs or the remainder of the factory warranty, whichever is first.

I am not convinced that even the warranty is worth the extra $4200 dollars. Since most people have been able to purchase entire motors for around $2500-$3500. So even if the Mini blew out the motor you could still buy a new one and still be cheaper than the JCW kit. Also, statistically blowing a motor for the aftermarket mods is very minimal, since it is using the same "style" parts that the JCW has and therefore should have theoretically the same life expectancy and effect that the JCW has on the Mini. I believe Randy is nearing 200 pulley installs and has never seen a problem. And if I am correct no one has ever posted a problem due to an intake/pulley/exhaust/chip mod on this board. If these were a problem, then we should have at least seen one. I would venture to say that probably almost 500 people have pulleys if not more. One person seeing a problem would have been 0.2% of pulley installs, but not even one has seen a failure.

The only argument that you could make, in my opinion, for the JCW kit is the prestige of owning a JCW certified kit. It could help resale, but again you wouldn't be able to recoup the $6k in parts and labor. You could just make the car more desirable to purchase and most likely get more for the car than just a base car with aftermarket parts. You would be owning an official sanctioned kit that has some good history. To some people this is worth it, and definitely a valid argument, since some people are willing to pay $20k, $30k or more for limited edition Porsche's, Mercede's... even though the actual parts don't cost that much. They are buying for the prestige, mystique...., which is what you would be buying with the JCW kit.

I think the chances that the quality aftermarket parts that are installed by a professional individual with lots of experience, going bad during the warranty period are nearly zilch. The warranty period is all you are concerned about, because once the JCW kit goes past the warranty, then it no longer has a warranty benefit. Way to many people have these parts and no problems seen. Now going with NOS, boring out the block.... These you could argue could be problems, because there are not enough of them circulating amongst the users to provide a good definitive sampling.

The $18k that I reference above would go for an exhaust, intake, pulley and chip. Randy at Webb Motorsports could give you an exact cost for everything, but I believe I have seen him quote prices somewhere around $1800 including install for these items. I may be off a couple of hundred.

This should bring you up to a hair over 200hp,which would be slightly more than the JCW kit which is 200hp.

Hope this helps some. I don't think it is worth it, based on your direct question below. If you want it for the prestige of the kit and less hassle that may be involved getting BMW to do the whole thing, then that could be worth it, depending how much you put on prestige. Although 30% above the cost of the base MCS pricetag may be a little steep for the prestige.

 

I would agree with dgszweda1 ,
For most people the JCW kit isn't a good way to spend $6000.
If you must have the kit for the name or collector's purposes then fine.
As for practical use there are better ways to spend half of that and get some performance enhancements, better suspension, better audio, better wheels, etc.
The warranty is an issue to some and that is a consideration if you are risk averse.
I considered the kit for a long time and decided against it.
It's your decision. They are also in short supply.

 

I have the Works and love it. For me the decision was simple. I wanted John Coopers "stamp" on my car..... period. The history and success behind our MINI's are tied to this man and having raced the original Cooper S I see why. Is it expensive.. yes.... is it overpriced.... time will tell. You can hop up a MINI that will outrun a Works, but in the end it is not a Works. Quite simply it is a matter of what is important to you. If it is a money issue... do the mods. For me I wanted a tie to John Cooper.

 

Mark C really confirms what I said above. And again in my opinion the only arguable reason to purchase one. I know my post was long above, but sometimes people come on very strong about warranty but when you look at the pure numbers it doesn't make sense. If you want the heritage, the "exclusivity" of owning a certified kit based off of name that is a hallmark with Coopers (which is a very valid argument), then rush out quickly and buy one, because it will probably be the only kit that will probably give you that, even if Dinan or other companies eventually come out with something. I think the name JCW on a Mini Cooper far exceeds the Dinan or other similiar names.

 

Don't do it. Then those of us who have it will be worth more at trade in time . Buy a nice WRX or EvoVII. Maybe a 350Z. If you buy a JCW, you get development, not warranty. That way, you can pound it as hard as you want, and it shouldn't blow up. If it does, then you're covered. When you exceed design limits of the blower with your aftermarket pulley, be sure you ask how many miles of testing they did. Zero. If you can't afford to fix it if you blow it up, don't change it, or trade cars often enough to avoid the boom. It will happen, maybe not soon, but how many 100K mile on modded BMW/honda/whatever cars you see, versus how many 100K mile M cars. The JCW is developed similarly(save bigger brakes).
Can a moderator put these value threads in their own place? Please?

 

>>
>>I am not convinced that even the warranty is worth the extra $4200 dollars.

The dealers in my area want $6,000 ($4,500 for the parts and $1,500 to install it) Not worth it to me. I plan to put install an intake, pulley, chip, exhaust and use the left over money to my new race tires for my corvette Z06.

RaceCarDriver

 

I've had the JCW kit since the middle of August and I love it (I went from a Cooper to Cooper S to JCW Cooper S in a 16-month period). Frankly it was very expensive and I'll be short on fundage for a little while but I feel it was worth it. Having driven the stock S and JCW back-to-back several times you can really feel the extra oomph. I really like the look of the exhaust tips too . I too wanted a "tie" to the John Cooper name and heritage, plus as this car is my daily driver it was important to me to keep the warranty intact.

If you have the money, go for it! If not, there are plenty of mods out there to achieve the same goal.

 

>>Don't do it. Then those of us who have it will be worth more at trade in time . Buy a nice WRX or EvoVII. Maybe a 350Z. If you buy a JCW, you get development, not warranty. That way, you can pound it as hard as you want, and it shouldn't blow up. If it does, then you're covered. When you exceed design limits of the blower with your aftermarket pulley, be sure you ask how many miles of testing they did. Zero. If you can't afford to fix it if you blow it up, don't change it, or trade cars often enough to avoid the boom. It will happen, maybe not soon, but how many 100K mile on modded BMW/honda/whatever cars you see, versus how many 100K mile M cars. The JCW is developed similarly(save bigger brakes).
>>Can a moderator put these value threads in their own place? Please?

You know I love you Diggy, but I have to point out a couple of things about the aftermarket.

Zero isn't fair. I had done several thousand miles on the track and street before I started doing other supercharger pulleys. I also spoke with the BMW engineers (and if you look at the date of some of my postings, I knew that the reduction was safe at 15% before the JCW car came out with the same reduction) and Getrag and Ford (who run the same gearbox in the SVT Focus) and Eaton engineers to be certain the modification was safe.

All I mean to say with this post is that myself and others I'm sure DO test the products to be certain it is safe. I now have over 11,000 miles on the pulley of track and autocross time, and still have no problems. For those of you unfamiliar with track time, that equates to about 100,000 miles of street driving.

To the point at hand, the JCW has its place. It is a heritage and resale value, plain and simple. If all you are concerned about is performance, go with the aftermarket. If you want heritage (not that some of us don't hope to have our own heritage someday), go with the JCW. I tend to agree with some of the above statements that the warranty is less of an issue.

:smile:

Randy

 

Hey Randy!
OK, You test stuff (actually, you pound the crap outta stuff as you blow by cones)
Both of us in the past have tried to make racehorses out of pigs, and ended up with really fast pigs, but MCS' aren't that bad, thankfully. The warranty merely reflects the lessened likelihood that something will grenade, since the factory tried to blow it up for extended periods. How do we get THAT job..."Bye honey, I'm off to pound the crap out of a prototype on the 'ring today..."
U get my PM?

 

"Worth the Money": A very subjective concept in the arena of expensive cars mods, art, sound systems, designer cloths, pricy wines, expensive furniture, etc. In a world where people have disposable income (some more than others) the concept of VALUE VS COST gets to be a very complex question. Scientific data, test scores, consume
- I think we are accustomed to hearing the JCW vs. cost discussion and are frankly no closer to a consensus than before. I have it, like it a lot & got it because it was & still is the most well researched & tested Cooper S performance mod package on the market. The many aftermarket products currently being offered for the Coopers S range from half-baked to excellent & ALL represent some kind of risk relative to warrant issues, long-term use and effect on engine/drive train etc. If one is willing to assume the risk then one should consider entering the market.
-Buz Buz: Let's stop the JWC critique & move on to more interesting topics, please!
-PS: Dinan products are not a wise resale investment outside a tiny,tiny market % and dont' count on the JCW kit as a sure bet either.

 

Maybe not worth it buying new though many obviously feel it is worth it as there are quite a few around, considering cost.
Of course buying a JCW used like I did is in my opinion the only way to go if you like performance - I paid a bit more for my JCW than an S and enjoy every bit of it.

 

Wow... Felt compelled to reopen a 10 year old thread. *****!

That said, The Dread Pirate can dust factory JCW's (the new ones even). The advantages of a factory JCW is that the internals of the engine are a bit beefier. THAT would be the only advantage. The JCW "kit" that the dealer installs is crap compared to what you can do via 3rd party.

 

Someone will always be better looking, richer have a bigger **** and someone's car will always be faster. I'm fine with mine just the way is.

Just enjoyed reading some of those postings.

 

My above said, in all, I'm out $15k.

 

Out 15k why? Engine mods?

 

Aesthetic Creations Black Door Handles
Akrapovic:
Down Pipe
Delete R
Alta Blow Off Valve Spring Upgrade
Craven
Stubby antenna
Hand Brake Handle (powder coated red)
DoS CAI
Forge FMIC
Helix Short Shift Kit
Hella
Black Magics (w/HID upgrade)
Supertone Horn Kit
H-Sport Rear Camber Links
Mini Fini Intake Scoop Grill
NGK Cold Heat Range Spark Plugs
NM:
Stage 2 ECU Tune
Aluminum Billet Tie-Bar
Discharge Pipe
Titanium Heat Shield
Torque Arm Insert
Shifter Assembly Box Cover
Quaife Limited Slip Differential
Koni Yellow Adjustable Sport Shocks
MINI Rooster Red Arm Rests (w/black interior)
Powerflex Bushings
TSW:
Performance Springs
19mm Sway Bar
X-Brace
Vinyl Styles: (all black out except JCW grill trim)
Headlight/Taillight trim
Gas Cap
Side Markers (smoked)
Boot Handle
VIP Custom:
Down Pipe Back Exhaust (last 1/4 powder coated black)
Driving Light Brackets
Whalen Shift ****
WMW:
Stainless Steel Brake Lines
JCW Turbo Exhaust Manifold

12mm front/15mm rear spacers
Chili Red Powder Coated Calipers

among others...

Oh... and I can't do the fancy stuff so installation costs...

 

If those trinkets make you happy. More power
to you.

 

You asked... Obviously missed the power parts. You then insulted with no reason... So come to Savannah, choose a track (we have a couple) and see how long your JCW lasts. There are a couple S's here who will embarrass you.

 

I didn't mean to minimize or denigrate in any way
your very cool improvements. My choice of
the word "trinkets" wasn't the best description.

Truly more power to you for doing all those add ons and cool bits to your MINI.

Lastly, you could whip me on the track or street
in a 10 yo Ford Focus. I'm no competition to you, believe
me.
I want to buy it when you're ready to let it go

 

If it's a used JCW, then it can often be well worth it because the original owner takes most of the hit for the JCW accessories. And it also depends upon how much JCW equipment is on the car. If you can find one with the LSD, then it's well worth it. In my humble opinion, increasing the HP of the Mini and improving the suspension is almost pointless if you don't also have a LSD.

You can add one yourself, but it's gonna cost you.

 

In my opinion, unless you're racing on a fairly regular basis LSD is not that noticeable. I have it on one of my cars and the other doesn't. They're both fairly well modded and the performance difference is slight at best with the LSD.
JCW's (r53'S) at some point in time will become more valuable as a collector's car.

 

 

You must not drive your cars very hard. LSD not only reduces torque steer for normal driving, but as soon as you wick the speed up in the twisties, like a spirited weekend drive, an LSD equipped car will spank even a more powerful car without LSD.