What is the difference between installing the John Cooper Works Tuning kit on an S and getting a John Cooper Works car straight from the factory? The horsepower for the former is 189 hp while the latter is 208 hp. What accounts for that difference? Is it possible to get up to 208 hp on an S?

Thank you.

 

The factory JCW has a larger turbo and reinforced pistons to handle the increased boost pressure. It would be possible to push the standard S engine to produce the same power, but it might have a negative affect on longevity.

 

Is it possible to upgrade the pistons as well on the S engine?

 

Also, what is the difference between "Stage 1" and "Stage 2" kits ?

 

Stage 1 is the dealer upgrade (ECU flash, intake and exhaust) while the Stage 2 is another name for the factory JCW car.

 

JCW Factory German Engine and Tranny
JCW Stage I French Block and Japanese Tranny

I have both...No comparison.

Check here!

Hope this helps.

 

I am not saying your wrong but I think you are

The Factory and Cooper S share the same block. They just changed the turbo and pistons. Secondly, I know you are wrong on the transmissions. The S only in auto form has the Japanese Aisin Transmission the manual is not Japanese. They reinforced the clutch but the S and JCW share the same basic manual trans.

Wow : I don't mind people sharing an idea or opinion in order to figure things out but to post so blatantly is just unusual.

I'm sure there is someone on this site that has more factual info on this subject and I would like to know the real differences but I think I understand some

 

Sorry I got distracted

The Stage 1 will give you approx 20 HP from an intake, Exhaust, and ECU Tune. The Factory Car will give you 36 HP from Improved Turbo, Pistons, Exhaust.

The cost will be 7500 dollars different.

It must be noted the JCW Factory Car will get you lighter weight 17 Inch wheels and better brakes. The manual trans is not better it is just reinforced to handle over 200HP. Both cars come with standard S suspension

My personal opinion is a JCW stage 1 car with the JCW Suspension and mechanical LSD which comes only as an option in the S stage 1 for 26500 is the perfect mini.
190 HP, Mechanical LSD, JCW suspension and very good brakes make the stage 1 car perfect balanced performance car

The 208 HP factory car is a better car if you are willing to spend the 34000 to add the suspension and balance it out as well as a mechanical LSD. It will have 19 more HP and better brakes. However, the stock Cooper S brakes with Carbotech pads are pretty good for all but serious wheel to wheel track racers.

Go with a stage 1 and if you are in to all around performance
Go with a Factory car if you are just looking for better acceleration or do it all for 34000 and build the ultimate performance mini.

 

Thank you for the information!

 

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Good feedback. You may get some factory JCW owners that disagree with you but your analysis looks pretty reasonable to me.

I have a 2008 MCS with the JCW tuning kit and the JCW suspension and I am very happy with the overall balance for aggressive street use and occasional track use. Total price for everything (many MCS options including LSD) with JCW tuning and suspension was less than $30K.

Also, as a bonus, the JCW suspension is very comfortable and feels very refined like it was actually designed for the car! (which it was!)

 

I have not seen this in print anywhere else. It is my understanding that the base engine, block and transmission are the same for the R56 JCW tuned cars and for the JCW factory cars.

 

DEROSI>>> You are right the tranny on the MCS is from Germany also I jump the gun and posted the Automatic Info, how ever is a different tranny I will click a shot of the under carriage of the JCW and show you the model numbers, they are NOT the same

BUT the engine info is correct and is a fact.

The engine on the JCW Factory MINI is a German Build Engine, same as the Challenge MINI, same goes for the transmission and clutch.

The JCW stage I is an after build port or dealer installed on the regular engine and transmission.

I have BOTH.

 

I'm pretty sure the block is the same but it seems there is more of the motor in the JCW that is German. I heard the head on the factory JCW has been reworked maybe they used a German head rather then French. When it comes to manufacturing there is a formula they use to be able to consider a component coming from one country Vs another.

Thanks again for the info. I have wanted to fully understand this and although I still do not your info helped.

 

An interesting note is that the JCW brakes added on to an "S" is not as good as a set of factory JCW brakes. I don't remember if the rotors are different sizes but the calipers have different amount of pistons.

Having said that.... I spent a couple of track days running my "S" with the JCW brakes and they worked PERFECTLY. I'm sure if I was to do track days on a continual basis, then it would be worth upgrading to a better brake setup but for the few I do, the "Stage I" JCW brakes work great.

Mark

 

I don't think you can go wrong with either JCW or MCS, it just depends on how you want to work it. But, you can get a nice JCW car for $31K-$32K if you are careful with all the options, and I believe that you will actually get a lot more hp than advertised...just looking at the postings that show 202hp at the wheels...add 10% for the true motor rating. So you do get quite a bit extra for the money. Either way, you pay to play.

 

The block and heads are of the same exact molds for 2009 factory JCW and 2009 MCS. There is no difference in the casting at all. What is different is where its assembled and how. Hence the location of manufacturing changes on Stage 2 vs Stage 1 JCW. If one takes the same exact pistons and parts used on the stage 2 engine and installed them into the stage 1, they would be identical. However you can not do just that since the ECU tuning would be different and without it, it would run like crap ! The stage 2 turbo is a direct replacement for the stage 1. You can swap the the two since from the exterior they are the same, the internal cartiages are different. You can take a stage 2 turbo and use it on a stage 1 engine, it will work, but the higher air flow will cause issues with the sensors. Boost pressure is the same, just the stage 2 turbo can deliver it through the range better than the smaller one.

BTW, the pistons used are shallower so compression can be lowered without needing to change the connecting rods or crank. There is a good write up in the MCS magazine that talks in some detail whats done to the 2009 JCW factory engine compared to standard MCS engine.

 

I read this somewhere and copied it down for future reference. It was with regards to the boost pressure increase on the factory JCW:

I don't remember where I got it from, so it may not be 100% correct.

 

That is correct and forgot about that. 0.9 bar is roughly equal to 13.1 psi and 1.3 is roughly 18.9 psi. However in so called "overboost", the MCS turbo can deliver up to 20 psi / 1.38 bar. Somewhere the overboost pressure for the current turbo is documented someplace (can not remember where, sorry).

What could be meant is that the stage 2 turbo can deliver 1.3 bar on a continuous basis instead of 1.3 bar in a surge mode .... Just speculating ....

 

Does anyone know if there is a "overboost" functions on the new stage 2 jcw engine ?

I am wondering if that is gone on the stage 2 setup since on the current models, overboost really only works at W.O.T and there is a chance the ECU is going to limit how long that is going to take place ....

 

The cars (mine included) are consistently producing 198 hp and 212 ft/lb torque AT THE WHEEL!! If you add in a modest 10 percent correction factor 218 hp and 233 ft/lb at the engine.

For your convenience linky added here: https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...d.php?t=151542

 

It is possible to rebuild the entire engine to JCW specs but at what cost. There are also many other items to the JCW the S does not have. Worth the money to go the JCW route.

 

Very good info ..and from my research accurate