My son and I have 2 of 2003 MCS with JCW and 210HP Upgrade.
Both cars are identical to every detail .
We are about to add some stuff to increase HP. To get a base line we Dyno both cars and get 192 HP (167 whp) and 190 HP (165whp).
Both cars should be around 210 HP... right ???

The only change we done to both cars was to fit the Magnaflow exhaust about two years ago.
Do you guys think this is the reason why we lost about 20 HP ?

Appreciate your help.
Manuel.

 

Readings taken from the crank (210 hp) and the wheels (190hp).

About 10% driveline loss there...little low figure.

- Matt

 

Most JCW's dyno right around 170 WHP. GP's around 180, stock MCS is between 150 and 160 depending on how strong it is. These cars vary widely, and don't always add up exactly to the rated HP .

FYI 12% is a more conservative drivetrain calculation.

 

JCW210 should come in about 180whp but that all depends upon where it started. There is a fairly large variations in engine output ... Someone on MINI2 claims they dynoed many, many MCS engines and the variations were pretty big. You could have just got two that were on the bottom end of the curve.

 

Are these figures based on your observations at dyno runs? I'm not disputing the numbers here, but I'm just curious as to how you arrived at these general figures and the sample size of how many MINIs you've seen dynoed. Thanks!

10-20whp average peak gain for a JCW over a stock MCS doesn't surprise me much. However, the few JCWs I've driven seem to have a smoother and flat torque curve compared to similarly-modified MCSs using aftermarket components.

 

I'd agree that the JCW package results in a more refined HP gain, but some like the torqueness of aftermarket.

My figures are derived from personal experiance in person and just reading on here with what people have seen from dynos.

 

Thank you for the clarification.

Refined HP gain is a very apt description for JCW. When I test drove the R56, I felt it was similar to a R53 JCW without:
1. SC whine
2. Exhaust burbles
3. Dash rattles and squeaks.

 

I've seen 5 JCW cars on either Mustang or Dyna-Pack dynos and have never seen one hit over 175 whp...FWIW...

 

The variance between these engines is ridiculous. Keep in mind there are 2 different JCW kits, I believe the old JCW kit was 200 HP, while the new one is 210.

 

Our JCW upgrade is the 210 HP.

Just some more information, when we dyno both cars, the Engine temp was
about 165 - 175 deg F. the ideal temp. According to the Dyno tech people the conditions were ideal.

We also placed a large dyno fan aimed at the SC opening to simulate
normal driving conditions.

My opinion, one can expect a variation on dyno figures due to a lot of factors,
but 20 HP is a bit much. At least none of you think is the Magnaflow exhaust,
if anything should have improved it by at least another 5HP .
Manuel

 

True...I'm pretty sure most of the cars I saw were either 05's or 06's.

 

Who's seeing 20hp differences? The numbers you got were at the wheels, the JCW "advertised" horsepower is at the crank. You're right in line with regular JCW performance. As far as 20hp differences, I'd be more ready to blame poorly-calibrated dynos and atmospheric conditions than the cars.

And slightly off-topic, about this "JCW smoothness" BS, I'd have to disagree. An S with intake, exhaust, and pulley gets you to JCW hp/tq numbers. (Which is supposedly less "refined.") Add a flash or even custom tune, and you'll be seeing more and just as smooth power, at a fraction of the cost. If you are going to be comparing JCW to "the aftermarket," why not compare it to the aftermarket done right?

 

But I love the Dash rattles and squeals.

 

Redskunk please read figures again... 190 Hp at the crank, so thats less
20 HP below the 210 HP stated by BMW for the JCW upgrade.

The figures in ( ) are WHP.

 

That depends on the definition of "aftermarket done right." My Unichip tuner and I decided to go for the maximum power in the mid-range. Consequently, my car is punchier than any JCW I've driven, which tend to feel tamer and more civilized. That is "aftermarket done right" for me, because although I can appreciate refinment in power delivery, I prefer that in a luxury car and not for the MINI. Different strokes for different people.

 

Well, your calculations are slightly off, but it's only 2-3 HP with these numbers. To calculate HP at the crank you'd divide whatever wheel HP you're getting by .88 (That will calculate 12% drivetrain loss). I'm just nitpicking though.

Honestly you're not seeing that big of a difference from what most of the other JCW cars are seeing. Your car is an 03, which means that it has the 200 HP kit. 190 HP depending on how the dyno was run sounds about right for the JCW. JCW isn't like, the engine will now be rerated at 210 HP, they're just parts that are put on to increase the HP by a small %. Some people will see 190 bHP, others will see 200, a few might see the published 210! I highly doubt that MINI would care that the car didnt' dyno at exactly 210 HP.

It's NOT a kit that you install if you're looking for a huge increase in power. Installing a pulley on the car for 300 bucks gets you about the same increase in power . You may need a CAI and a bit of software tweaking to make it really right where the JCW is, but honestly, for less than $1k you could have a car that makes pretty close to what the JCW makes. The only purpose is to preserve your warranty.

EVERY dyno i've seen with the JCW kit has been between 165 and 175 HP to the wheels (Depending on the type of dyno). The MCS GP dynos ~10 wHP higher. Jan from RMW's GP dynoed at 181 wHP. To make the published 210 bHP you'd need to have ~185 wHP, you're not going to see that with the JCW kit when GP's with new software and bigger intercoolers are seeing less than that .

You have to understand, results will vary greatly, these motors have horrible tolerances. I've seen stock MCS's dyno at 145 wHP, and seen others dyno at 160+ wHP. My car with a pulley, intake, exhaust, header, and software dynoed at 192 wHP . The 05-06's seem to run better for whatever reason, maybe it's the SC, maybe it's the software, I don't know.

Just enjoy your car and stop worrying about the numbers game, if your car drives well, then who cares if it makes 100 HP or 500 HP .

 

My mistake, sorry. But ol' rustyboy nailed it in his last post. Although still, remember that dynos themselves aren't that hot. Lighter wheels will change things. The quicker gearing of the 05-06s will change things. ETC.

 

Yup, not all dyno's are created equal. You have to factor in the person running the dyno, SAE corrections, whether or not he's using the proper load for the given conditions, even the type of dyno makes a big difference.

DynoJet dynos are notorious for running even upwards of 10% high. DynoDynamics, Mustang, and Dynopack dynos are notorious for running low. It could be so many things it's not even funny. Short of pulling your engine and running it on a bench dyno in a workshop you'll never know what kind of power it's truely making.

 

The reason the JCW and GP cars dyno lower than rated is most likely due to anti abuse measures in the operating system. This is common knowledge about BMW M cars in the professional tuning world. This type of intervention is also incorporated into the software of other vehicles like corvettes. Strap one of these to a dyno and spin the drive wheels at 120mph with the rear wheels stationary and the parking brake applied and you create a situation that is not plausable to the ecu and operating system so it intervenes and reduces the power. When we dyno this type of vehicle we generally turn this off by putting the offending system to sleep or bypassing it by other means. There is no documentation on this from Mini but in my vast experience with this brand and others this is an intervention that is widely used on drive by wire cars. If your JCW is in good operating condition then you are most likely getting all the power you paid for when driven under normal operating conditions.

 

Good info

 

What Lucky is saying certainly fits in with all my measurements (dyno and road tests). My GP dyno's right in the same ballpark as those mentioned, but pulls like a freight train. It's hard to believe that it's only making 177 whp, when it runs 14 sec. e.t.'s with the a/c on.

 

And hence the fact 210 JCW pull about 180.

I believe Randy told me that when he was doing some pulleys.

Thanks John