So a couple weeks ago my old car got written off by a new driver, so i've been looking at what to buy. My old car was a Honda Fit and while it was good on gas and it handled pretty good (with suspension/weight reduction mods) it was hard to take much pride in a tuned eco-car.

To be honest i wasn't even looking at mini's to begin with, i was thinking something Honda/Acura, something with a bit more power, but still decent gas mileage, but i'm at the used car lot at a Dodge dealership and the salesman asked if i wanted to test drive the mini s they had (since they didn't have any 5-spd civics, pretty much from then on i wasn't even thinking about getting a civic, but the one they had was kinda overpriced and not really what i was looking for, so i started doing research on the car, you know, seeing what kind of aftermarket support there is, and also doing research here.

The problem is i feel like i might gone too far I mean i love the mini, but from reading a fair bit on here it sounds (oh i guess i should say I'm looking at getting a R53) like mini's are a bit of a headache as far as maintenance goes, and things breaking. Even with that in mind I don't think i'd be happier with a civic and have to tune everything to get it up to a mini's standards, but at the same time i don't know, that's why today i started looking at VW's, probably like a Rabbit or at least something in that size range (really don't know much about VW's) except that i've heard that they're not very reliable and that they don't really hold value.

So here's my question as far as reliability and fun-to-drive factor are concerned what would you rate higher a Mini Cooper S R53 or a VW Rabbit (i'd probably opted for the turbo VW version, but i can't remember what it's called)?

edit: actually probably a non-turbo '06 Rabbit, just to keep the horsepower ratings about the same.

 

if the r53 is an 05 than it's a pretty rock solid car. from what i understand, many of the mechanical gremlins that plagued the earlier r53 models were alleviated by 05. the gertrag 6 speed is bullet proof.

a honda by all means is a reliable car and you can mod/tune the crap out of them - but it's still a honda and there's a bit of the stigma that comes with driving a riced out car (plus you really have to enjoy the sound of lawnmowers on steroids!)

the vw (gti is what you're thinking) is a pretty fun little car - it's kinda like driving an audi with a few less thrills and less $$$$. and they can be tuned all day long. it's got nice tone and the interior isn't too bad for a pseudo german car (i love the straight bottom steering wheel - mini needs to come out with these!!)

however, neither of those cars come close to the raw driving experience that is a r53. nothing sounds like a mcs - especially when you add a nice full exhaust, air intake and upgraded pulley. even with the stock suspension, these cars handle and drive amazing. despite being made by bmw, they don't have that overly luxury feel that you have even with the 330zhp or m3.

if you're just buying a car to drive and maybe throw some money at - a car that you may drive for a few years then get rid of to get another one- then buy the honda or the vw (i'd lean towards the gti). but if you want a car that you may just keep forever then get the mini - i don't think you'll regret it.

 

Just remember that people don't always come to a forum to post about how problem free their car is. You're only seeing the small percentage that have had problems posting here. No car is trouble free, and things will break eventually on any car, but good maintenance can help tremendously. Maintenance for MINIs is not that bad, most things can be done in your own garage.

So did you end up test driving it?

 

yea i actually, well i test drove a '04 R53, but i told the dealership (at the time) that i wasn't sure about it (i think something was wrong with the transmission it had, might've just needed new oil, but i could literally hear each gear as the synchro slid onto it and the clutch was a LOT stiffer than on the fit) so i wasn't sure at first, so they let me keep the car for a day with half a tank of free gas which helped change my mind, although i still didn't really like the long first gear.

And then i drove an '06 R53 which i didn't really have anything to complain about, but it was out of my price range, and loaded with more options than i need.

honestly my main appeal to the mini (when it isn't loaded with options is that fact that it feels (to me) like a front wheel drive/all year long Lotus elise, that might be a stretch since i've never driven an elise, but that's how it felt.

 

Food for thought...

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...rformance.html

 

First of all, welcome to the forum (I'm a newbie MINI owner myself). Posting that question on this site is probably going to give you a lot of one-sided answers to be honest. Just like if you posted your question on a VW site. The real test is to take both of them out for a test drive. That's what I did and the answer was clear as day for me. The VW is a nice car (check out sites like Edmunds and J.D. Power to get reliability info on both cars) but there was something about the MINI that got my adrenaline pumping and I just couldn't stop grinning. This probably isn't much help since I can't supply you with real world numbers of which is better, but I went with my gut and I have no regrets. Hope you make your decision soon so you can Motor On!

 

yea i knew it would probably be one-sided, idk after doing some minor research i'm pretty confident that the mini would be more fun to drive, but i've got a friend that's a VW mechanic so i'll see what he says about reliability.

 

I would stretch the budget to get an '05, better car than '02-'04's, even better, get the '06. The MINI holds it's value better than the VW and is put together with more care. Honda? join the multitude.

 

umm...MINI?

 

I'll just speak from first hand experiences with VW. Had an old Scirocco, it was ok until I ended up with cracked injectors and had to be towed for 2 hours to get to a dealership. After it was fixed, no more problems.

91 Eurovan cost us $10,000 in 3 years in maintenance then finally traded it in for a 4Runner.

MINI's been the most fun car I've ever driven. Not been problem free, had the sunroof replaced as well as all the parts associated with the cold-start chatter.

Hopefully I'll keep my MINI for many years, but regardless, I'll never buy a VW ever again.

 

My brother has an '07 Fit, and I've driven it numerous times.

The Honda is an everyman car, so the clutch is weak. It is also geared too short in my opinion. I found myself running out of revs while going nowhere. The Fit also lacks throttle response of any kind and after half throttle the pedal does nothing.

It does have a smooth shifting gearbox though... but the weak clutch pedal. It takes no effort at all to move the clutch pedal. I couldn't really feel that I was even hitting a pedal at all.

The Getrag in the MCS can feel a little notchy if the transmission oil is older. The stiffer clutch is normal, I think that most BMWs have stiffer clutch pedals. It's performance oriented I'd guess. I'd like my MINI's clutch pedal to be 50% stiffer.

 

Thanks for the input, i just wanted to be sure that i'm getting something with good value, i mean while the honda wasn't sporty at all, i never had to put money into it in 3 years aside from oil changes, tires, and the aftermarket stuff i bought for it, just reading some of the horror stories on here kind of scared me a little.

 

yea most honda fit's don't have much oomph after 4000rpm, the thing about the gas pedal though is because it's dbw the throttle body actually opens up at about 80% open when the pedal is only half way pressed that's why it feels like there's not much there when you floor it, but mine was ok for throttle response even with just an intake and a straight piped exhaust (ie, no muffler, no resonator, 2.25in. straight back).

But i'm not looking for another honda fit since stock '07 honda fit's cost about as much as '03 MCS's in my area

 

First off I'll agree with everything posted above. Most people would get on a forum to discuss problems with a vehicle and find solutions, and I would bet that by far most actual MINI owners never even get on to the forums, so as far as reliability, a forum is not a good indicator to judge by.

My car (2004 R53) hasn't been problem free, but it also hasn't had major issues, and no more than I would expect in many other cars. But it has been an awesome ownership experience.

The biggest problem you'll have if you decide to go with the MINI is that after it, when it comes time to replace it, you'll have a hard time finding anything that matches or even comes close to the feel and driving experience of the MINI.

I work with a lot of cars, so I get to drive a lot of things out there. I've also recently been getting a new car itch, mainly because we just had a baby, so I was thinking of going slightly larger. But I've driven the GTI, a WRX, and a few others, yet nothing really felt "right" after the MINI. That is why so many say the it's a car you'll keep forever. There might be something that could complement it, if you need something bigger, but I'm having a hard time finding a remotely suitable replacement, so you know what, I just might keep it. (My wife has a CR-V anyway so we're covered). Sorry about the long diatribe, but really, that sums up the biggest problem of going with the MINI over the other cars.

 

I don't have any first-hand experience with VW's or the Fit, but have some comments on the '04 you test drove.

-The stiff clutch is normal for an R53. I wouldn't have it any other way.

-The transmission sounds like it probably just needs new oil. The Getrag 6 is pretty solid and rarely has any issues that I've heard of, but definitely have a mechanic check it out before buying! It may be an indication of how well the car was cared for overall...

-The long first gear means it was most likely a pre mid-cycle refresh, as the refresh introduced shorter gearing in 1st and 2nd I believe. In a way, some people prefer the longer first gear because after a few power mods, it won't seem so long. The first gear in my '06 after a few mods is almost TOO short now.

If you haven't already seen it, there is an excellent R53 buyer's guide from MotoringFile that details things to look out for on different years. http://www.motoringfile.com/mini-r50r53-buyers-guide/

Of course, in my biased opinion, I would venture the R53 is more fun to drive and probably no less reliable than a VW.

 

yea i was a little worried about the 1st gear in the '06 being too short after a couple mods, cuz i had that problem with the fit, it was so perfect when i bought it that after a CAI it was too short, i couldn't even clear on intersection in 1st before shifting to 2nd.

But i think i've scratched the VW off my list the Rabbit is just too heavy compared to what i'm used to, but i think i am gonna test drive a '02 Civic Si EP3 today, it's a little bit bigger but it weighs about the same and has about the same amount of power.

 

although i suppose if i get really serious with power mods i could "probably" just change the '05/'06 crown and pinion gear to the one in an '04 since it's slightly longer. 2.74:1 vs 2.87:1

 

I don't know anything about the VW Rabbit or whatever it's called these days. However, I can guarantee you that reliability-wise, it can't be any worse than a Mini, and fun-wise, it can't be much better. HTH...

 

So for anybody interested, i just test drove an '06 5-spd VW Rabbit, and here's my thoughts of it.

If you're looking for a commuter car, something, soft, quiet, smooth, with good low end torque for overtaking then the Rabbit is a good option, although if you're looking for something atleast a little sporty look elsewhere.

In order to make the Rabbit feel sporty at all there's a couple big things that would need to be changed right off the bat. 1) get an aftermarket steering wheel, probably about 330mm cuz the rabbits steering wheel has no feel whatsoever. 2) change the suspension, i'd suggest fully adjustable coilovers because lowering springs and dampeners probably wouldn't do enough or 18/19in. wheels with low-pro tires, whichever you'd rather spend money on.

But for me i'm looking to buy a $18k car just to spend another $3-4k on suspension upgrades.

The only other thing i liked about the Rabbit was the interior space, as far as headroom goes it has as much headroom with the front seat in it's highest with a sunroof, as the mini has in its lowest position without a sunroof. Plus it has pretty close to as much interior space/cargo volume as my Fit had, now some of you might not think the fit has much cargo room, but to put it in perspective, when i moved 3 years ago i fit my futon mattress, my two tower speakers, my fair sized coffee table and a bunch of smaller things in my fit in ONE trip. (if that's important to you or not it doesn't matter) Me i'm not looking to move any time soon so it doesn't really matter.

Oh the other thing while the VW has lots of low end torque if you like driving above 4200-4300 rpm don't get the VW because the Rabbit's torque curve falls steep after that.

But we'll see, i'm test driving the civic si around 7pm today.

 

I wouldn't take a VW if it were new, and free, but with the
condition I was responsible for the repair bills only.

A VW is like a modern MG or Fiat. It's something you
only own one of in your lifetime.

 

I wouldn't know, I haven't had any experience with MG's or Fiat's.

 

IDK...I've had 6 Fiat Spiders, the last one being a Pininfarina, and I only had one dud out of the bunch.
My MG was another story...they dont call Lucas (wiring/electrical) the prince of darkness for nothing.
Now the Jaguar XJS...I wouldnt even know where to begin on that. Spontaneous engine fires, quitting for no reason (always in busy intersections-you ever push one of those? There is a reason for the terrible gas mileage.)
And then the end of all ends-despite being the lowest point in a driveway surrounded by trees-it got struck by lightening...
Aghhh....MINI, such a breath of fresh air!

 

you can't really compare the vw rabbit to a mini cooper s (r53 or r56). if you're really looking at a rabbit and not a gti then you need to look at a standard cooper (r50). otherwise, if you're really looking at an mcs, then you need to drive either the vw gti or the r32.

 

I can't comment on the GTI, but I own an '09 MCS and an '07 Jetta 2.5 (Wolfsburg). I can tell you that I haven't had any problems with the VW and it's a very nice driving car. Obviously a completely different car than the '09 MCS, but they are for different purposes. Just wanted to give my input on the reliability issue I've heard so much about with VW's.

My experience doesn't support all the bad press on VW's.

 

I traded my 06 GTI mkv 5 months ago for an 07 R56 MINI Cooper S and I could not be happier. The MINI is hands down more fun to drive than the GTI. I thought the GTI had character when I owned it, but now that I have a MINI, there is no comparison. I feel soo much more connected to the road in the MINI than I did in the GTI. The two best parts of the day are now the drive to and from work That was not the case when I owned the GTI.

Dont get me wrong, the GTI is an awesome car but if you want something that is fun to drive, great on gas (I averaged 25 with the GTI. I average 30 with the MINI), and has character, there is no other choice but a MINI!!!

In the end if I had to do it all over again and trade my GTI for a MINI....I would do it in a heartbeat.