Since I'm currently waiting to test drive a 2010 Mini Cooper (no automatics available in my area at the moment), I thought I would solicit your input on the biggest question I have concerning the "Justa"... Will it be as peppy as my 2007 VW Rabbit? That's my main concern. If the Justa feels as quick as my Rabbit, then my next car dilemma could potentially be solved! I'm certainly aware that my Rabbit is no performance car, but it feels more than adequate for my needs. Sure - if I could splurge without question on an S, I would do so. But for now I wish to learn more about the specifications of the Justa to determine if this car would feel like going backward performance-wise or not.

Here are some specs:

2007 VW Rabbit Engine:
Type: 5 cylinder / 2.5L
SAE Net Horsepower @ RPM: 150 @ 5000
SAE Net Torque @ RPM: 170 @ 3750

Base Curb Weight: 2974 lbs

2010 Mini Cooper Engine:
Type: 4 cylinder / 1.6L
SAE Net Horsepower @ RPM: 118 @ 6000 (The 118 number is scaring a very influential person in my life. He thinks that I'd be in precarious situations on the highway when trying to pass...)
SAE Net Torque @ RPM: 114 @ 4250

Base Curb Weight: 2546 lbs

Finally, could someone please explain to me - in plain language - what is "torque" and how it plays a factor along with horse power, in the overall power ability of an engine?

Thanks!

 

Why not cut to the chase and just take them both out for a test ride.... ? Then as an objective and informed buyer, you can post your impressions back here

Ultimately, that is how most folks will base their deiciding factor, and may just save you some time.

 

Of course I will do that. But as I said in my post, I can't test drive any coopers, as there are no automatics available in my area at this time. Therefore, I was seeking other people's opinion, while I wait...

 

You raised some pertinent questions that I wish I could answer, but I'm sure some of my mini bretheren will jump in and give you the answers your looking for. I just want to bring to your attention NO mini will run on carrot juice.

 

Seriously??!! Good to know!

 

Learn to drive stick!! 1000000000000000000 times more fun.

 

Make sure to press the sport button and take the MINI on some curvy roads. You will be sold right away. Plus the Rabbit's suspension is too floaty like a Cadillac, but some people like that.

 

IamLili, in the US, the MINI model performance levels are Cooper, Cooper S, and John Cooper Works. In some other countries, it is First, One, Cooper, Cooper S, and John Cooper Works. There is also the D for diesel mixed in there. So, here in the US, you are getting the higher performance model as the "base" model. So it may be a "justa" to you but it is a relative performer in its own right. Also, the models are hardtop, Clubman, and convertible at this point in time. Therefore, if you say you have a MINI Cooper, someone in the know may ask you which one of the models.
To answer one question, if you get a Cooper hardtop with an auto, it will have plenty of vroom for you to pass on the highway and then some.

 

I could refresh my standard driving skills, but I don't wanna. I'm always in slow moving traffic - stop and go - so I can't be bothered to drive standard 5 days out of 7 every week. But that's just me!

 

True. There are other models around the world that would be considered "slower" than the Mini Cooper Hardtop. But what I'm curious about is how this model compares to what I am used to. I would not consider a car that lacked some "oomph" in the performance department. And since I currently drive a 150 hp car, with which I am very pleased, I'm not asking for the impossible I think. But 118 hp seems like such a tiny number, even for a car that weighs 428 lbs less than my own...

 

I may be in the minority here but when I think of power and performance under the hood a MINI doesn't enter my mind and I've owned three. Handling however is second to none. As for comparing a 1.6L to a 2.5L there is no replacement for displacement. If your concerned that the MC won't be capable of getting out of it's own way you need to test drive one.

 

For the price of "justa cooper" why look at a rabbit?? Why not a GTI?

 

I have a Rabbit right now. Lease is up in a few months. Considering a Mini Cooper as my next car. GTI was an option, but it would be too much alike to my current car - style-wise of course. I want a change. Mind you, if it ends up that I can't afford or am not a fan of the Mini Cooper, I may get a 2010 Golf (the model is back to the Golf name; no more Rabbit in North America.) We'll see!

 

don't the rabbit and mini have the same auto transmission?

 

For the MINI Cooper specifically, you have to factor in handling and driving enjoyment, as well as the weight and size of the Cooper. HP ratings mean very little when it comes to driving a Cooper in comparison to a Rabbit or anything else.

Just test drive a Cooper and take it through some twisties and curves (and as was mentioned earlier make sure the Sport button next to the shifter is on and lit green). All will be revealed to you, young Jedi.

 

The '07 Rabbit is before the power increase I think, seemed pretty pokey to me. The MINI's engine is certainly smoother and more efficient (mpg). Feels quicker than the old 2.5 to me. It's surprisingly peppy with the stick or auto, you just have to try one out for yourself.

If I was in your position I'd go for a base GTI, the new MK VI is really nice...

 

They both have Aisin automatics, I dunno if they're the same.

 

Coming from a 200hp VW myself (although it was a much bigger car, a Passat) I was really concerned about the 115hp of the Justa being a little pokey. I test drove the S but ended up with a better optioned MINI. And after three months I don't regret getting the Justa. Because it is a smaller car the HP rating is a little misleading. It feels plenty fast. I have no problem getting around slower traffic on the freeway. As other people mentioned the combo of the small size/handling really makes it a fun car. Good luck with you decision. By the way I do have the auto as well.

 

The simplest terms I've found to understand torque vs. horsepower: horsepower will give you speed (depending on where it maxes in the RPM band), while torque will get you there quicker. When you jump on the gas from a dead stop and get planted into the back of your seat, that's torque.

All other things being equal, it's mostly torque that will get you from 0-60 quicker. However, all other things are seldom equal. Where in the RPM band your engine produces maximum torque and hp has a lot to do with how responsive a car will feel to throttle input. Then you have to factor in weight, gearing, and aerodynamics, just to name a few others.

There are so many variables, as many others have suggested, the only way to know for sure is to drive one yourself and let your butt tell you what's better for you. Good luck!

 

I agree with the comments above regarding torque vs horsepower. Torque is the "pull" or seat of the pants "yank" you feel when pressing on the gas. It's the relationship of RPM vs Torque that is important. An engine that develops it's maximum torque at a low rpm and maintains a high percentage of that maximum torque over a broad rpm range is most desirable for an every day driver. You will need to drive an automatic "Justa" but I would also suggest driving an automatic "S". The direct injected turbo engine in the S develops it's maximum torque at a very low rpm and maintains it past 4000 rpm. The 2.0 T engine from VW in the GTI has similar torque characteristics. Hopefully this helps some, happy shopping!

 

Lili get your self a ride in Justa Cooper, with auto put in the sport mode and take off with your foot well into the gas pedal I can guarantee that you will probably well ahead of the traffic on either side of you, make it to a freeway or high speed highway, keep pushing the gas pedal down and you will soon pass the other drivers in your lane, keep your foot in it and you will son be exceding the posted speed limits of Canada by at least 40 mph or 60 kph and explaining your self to the local law enforcement agency. I don't believe you will have any trouble with the 118 HP figure again. Whoooooooosh!

 

Different trannies from same manufacturer.. which is a Japanese company and last time I checked (with the VW trannies at least), they were assembled in Japan. Perhaps a good thing.

 

20 pounds reduction is equivalent to one horsepower gain........approximately.

And if you do a horse power to weight ratio on both vehicles, given your numbers are correct here are my figures.

VW = For every 19.82 bls of weight to 1 hp
Cooper = For every 21.6 lbs of weight to 1 hp



hp/lb=horsepower/weight

So you could actually make some hp gains with a few basic mods and come close to the same hp performance of the Golf, and have a better handling car out of the box.

 

Very True. I believe when I purchased a new 1981 1st Gen VW GTi, it was advertised at being some 90hp. with .83g in the skid pad, not bad for it's day. And it did have plenty if Zip and Zap.

 

As I have never driven a VW of any kind, I'll try a comparison that I know. I came out of a 300+ HP Pickup to the Mini. As far as HP, I think 118 moves the car better than 300 moved the pickup. I had a turbo Diesel that was very peppy, but it was raw power and low end tourque. I have never been dissappointed in the Mini performance. I just drive, but have never come close to being run over while getting on an entrance ramp.

Tourque is the potential power of an engine on the lower end of the power curve. It gets you going and provides lower RPM power.
HP is what takes over when the engine is at higher RPM's and keeps you going when tourque plays out. Both are guaged on the amount of force placed on a drive line and sensors on the mounting brackets on a meter. It gets complicated very quickly.

That is a very nutshell expaination but it woks for those of us who aren't engineers. Try the cars side by side, that is the only way you will know for sure.