As a Ford Expedition to MINI convert (although I still drive the Expedition when the space is required or the dogs go to the beach and I don't want the sand in my MINI...) I don't see the huge problem with "SUVs". People seem to make broad statements about SUV drivers.

Do I expect the left lane to be free of people driving anywhere near (or, dreadfully UNDER) the speed limit??? heck yes!! but in my MINI or Expedition alike.

Have I changed my ways when it comes to small cars when driving my MINI?? Heck no! Either small cars are fun, fast, and zippy just like me, and I enjoy driving along with them, they are sloooowww but think that they can keep up with me so I pass them or ride them, OR they are slow and keep to the right lane, and don't even consider them.

Is this the SUV driver in me? NO! I learned on a 1990 Plymouth Laser and took that car quite fast driving in the left lane and if some $^#hole in the left dared to stay there they'd get my brights blinking like they've never seen before.

So geez...why all the hating on the SUVs out there?? There can (and sometimes actually IS) a viable reason to drive an SUV and I don't see why all of the SUV drivers (WHICH are sometimes ALSO MINI drivers) get such a bad rap.

Ok enough of my rant...

 

Sure it overgeneralizes and goes overboard, but what good bash-fest doesn't?

What I am increasingly amazed by is how large all cars are getting (insert R56 joke here). I know these things go in cycles, but the new Accord looks the size of a Cadillac!

 

That hits the nail on the head. There are exceptions to every rule, but 9 times out of 10 it is one of 3 cases.

1) The driver is a soccer mom talking on her cell phone riding your *** on the interstate with nobody in the backseat except a weeks worth of groceries.

2) The driver is some 20something with an obvious need to compensate for something. He'll be driving an Escalade (or a Hummer) thats been lifted, has big *** tires and has obviously never seen a dirt road in its life.

3) Is a teenage girl with sunglasses so big that you can't see anything but a mouth and a ball of hair behind them. She'll be texting her friends and swerving all over the road.

Its been scientifically proven.

Edit: I could be biased coming from Myrtle Beach where I've had to deal with said SUV drivers on a daily basis for the entire 6 years I lived there.

 

First, if you *averaged* 120 driving from Washington to LA (there's really nowhere on I-5 where you can safely sustain those speeds), then you're dangerous and I don't want to be on the road anywhere near you, regardless of what you're driving.

Second, if you performed that stunt in an SUV, as opposed to a Ferrari or some other super high performace car with GREAT brakes, then you're just plain stupid.

 

Because very few SUV drivers are good drivers.........something about sitting up high or the size of the vehicle gives them a false sense of entitlement and/or security........

Most are women with the cell phone glued to their ear and clueless about what lane they're in or how fast they're going, or not.......

Many are guys who also have a cell glued to their ear, but some just think that because they're in a big vehicle, they don't have to move over for anyone.

Some just have the attitude that the left lane is for them............

Some I think are afraid to move over because they're not sure if something might be beside them.

Some are towing equipment and no one will let them in because they've been bottled up so long behind them in the left lane and they're all trying to pass on the right.

Some are clueless about their speed because of the size of the vehicle and ride your *** no matter how fast you're going.

And on, and on, and on.........

Some don't realize their speed and try to do things the SUV was not intended to do, like corner or stop..........

Yes I've seen these failings in people driving regular cars, but the majority of them are driving large SUV's........

My 2c..........

 

I was driving my first car, the lovely, raspberry colored Plymouth Laser that shook and rattled at that speed. Oh, did I mention I was 16 at the time Thank goodness I wouldn't take my Expedition past 80mph now

 

I think your own driving habits answers your questions. I admit that people have good reasons and uses to own an SUV, who am I to judge?

However, when an SUV driver is aggressive and fast, it's almost always going to be more noticeable than if they were driving a smaller car. Why? Because SUVs are larger and more intimidating, especially when you're in a small car like a MINI. SUVs cannot be safely driven like a small car. Most are basically trucks. They generally weigh more than cars, take longer to brake, are less agile and more prone to roll overs. Not to mention, they cause more damage when the hit something. I don't have a problem with SUVs I have a problem with people who get in SUVs and drive them irresponsibly.

 

It's simple... I'm not saying you'll understand or agree, but I believe I can explain it.

It's because the vast majority of SUV owners buy a vehicle that is larger than they really need, which gets terrible gas mileage, turns like crap, brakes like crap, and blocks the view of traffic ahead for other "normal" car drivers. Also, it is more likely to get in an accident (due to the inability to dodge the accident) than a car, and when it does, it will likely do more damage to everyone else around them due to the sheer size.

I'd guess that only 5% of these "big, tough" vehicles ever tow anything heavy behind them, and probably less than 5% even go anywhere off the road.

Compare what most people use an SUV for (people mover or "stuff" mover) with a minivan. Minivans are based upon a car platform, and generally they get much better gas mileage, they turn better and they brake better than most SUVs... plus they can often carry more people and/or stuff, depending on how you configure them (i.e. remove the rear bench if you need more stuff, less people).

But, wait... minivans are "uncool". Oh, I'm sorry... I thought the SUV defenders said they had an SUV because they needed them?

So you see, the criticism you hear is never directed at the genuine tow-ers or the genuine off-roaders. It's directed at the 95+% of people who buy them as commuter cars or occasional haulers when there are far more practical and safer vehicles out there for the job.

It's funny how something so silly - that a behemoth SUV is "cool" and a practical minivan (or even stationwagon) is not... can create a social stigma that has so many negative effects.

An SUV is NOT a car, yet they are all too often bought and used like cars, with ill effects.

The other "argument", beyond "coolness" is often safety, but that's bogus too. If you have the time, read this New Yorker article, I think it does a great job debunking that.

I hope I've helped to at least explain the situation without offending you - at least you may be better able to understand the terms of the argument, regardless of your feelings on the matter.

 

SUV's and why I hate them.

All of the above already listed reasons, plus:

I can't see past them, through them, or around them to assertain road and traffic conditions.

The are some of the sloppiest parking examples I experience regularly.

Most of the drivers can't seem to be bothered to turn their head and actually LOOK before changing lanes, relying the the dangerous habit of looking only the the mirrors.

In CA, anything pulling a trailer is restricted to 65 mph, yet bubba in his SUV is pulliung a boat at 85 mph in the fast lane. Hope it's got a good hitch.

At night, their bloody headlights are right in my face, front or rear.

 

I do believe the left lane is for ANYONE who wants to go faster than those currently on the road. If someone has a deathwish and decides that said SUV OR MINI *should* be doing the speed limit (which are, in general, way too low in my opinion) and they also decide that they will sit in the left lane to "prove the point" then yes, I ride their &#^

I haven't felt like this except in the MINI. The Expedition sure has issues going faster than 80 and thus I stick to a reasonable 60-70 most of the time


I guess my problem is the generalization of SUV drivers. I own one and would never attempt to outrun a faster car. If I own one, and still drive like a maniac having so much fun in the MINI, doesn't that mean that there's at least one other fair SUV driver out there? Can we stop generalizing all SUV drivers?

How about those idiot POC cars that think their car can make it above 60mph but then their cars shake and smoke and they either move the &#@& over (after attempting to pass a MINI or get passed...

What about the motorcyclists that decide that they are stupid enough to do wheelies at 80mph on the highway trying to show off that their engine is better than yours? (Or that they are so HOT that some young girl (ie me) would be so incredibly excited by this show of manliness that I will immediately pull over and invite them in my car) Hello? There's so many more idiot drivers out there that SUVs are just an annoyance at some points and a requirement at others - just like every other car... ??????

 

Different arguments for a different thread. You opened the SUV can of worms!

 

I do appreciate your real views on the subject without being rash or rude.

However, you did state that Minivans can generally carry/hold as many passengers/items as an SUV. Sorry but, at least with the expedition, it is hard to find a car that can hold as much stuff. And I know, with about 8 moves in the last 6 years...yeah I am used to stuffing the living daylights out of that car. Hence the reason I haven't sold it. Plus the whole "sand in my MINI" issue (yes I did try that once and ended up cleaning the MINI for over 2 hours to remove all the sand )


I guess, just for me, as an SUV/MINI owner, I am kind of tired of hearing about all the SUV BS that gets put on these boards. I may be both, but also a responsible SUV driver while a fun loving MINI driver. And I'm sure there's more of us out there.

Ha!... well I was just trying to state that there are idiot drivers out there aside from SUVers

 

As soon as I get behind the wheel of my wife's SUV, all my sense of courtesy and respect for other drivers goes right out the window and I try to inconvenience as many other motorists as possible!

People are either good or bad drivers regardless of which vehicle they are driving. But it may just be that poor drivers more often select SUVs to help compensate for their issues that make them poor drivers in the first place.

 

Oh and one other thing before I forget...

The reason to purchase an SUV to begin with was purely personal. Before the Expedition, I had a rash of Car totals (ie 4 in 1 calendar year...none of which I was involved AT ALL) so I can see the point in driving the SUV - Even if someone decides to hit me, my car will endure no damage) works for me!

Look at it from another perspective will you? With a couple apparent tries on my life, I purchased an SUV. In 4 years I did not experience 1 hit/near encounter. Now, the only thing I am worried about is starting that all over again in the MINI. Thank goodness the MINI has 8 airbags...

 

I can agree here. ALthough might I add that out of all 4 totals of cars, I was driving in 2 of them, 1 of them I was stopped at a stop light, and one of them I was driving along test driving a car when someone decided to ram into me.

So, maybe not all are choosing an SUV purely due to THEIR driving habits...

 

Like any stereotype, there are always exceptions... however, there is also a reason the stereotype exists, meaning that there is often a "common truth" to it. Common, not certain. The catch with stereotypes is that you've got to make allowances for the exceptions too (and I do).

However, you have to dissect the SUV criticism into two types:

1. Criticism of SUV drivers and their actions/habits
2. Criticism of the vehicle itself

Personally, most of my criticism is towards the vehicle itself, although the fact they chose an SUV as a commuter car / grocery getter in the first place does reflect some of the attention back on the driver again.

Put it this way, I may disagree... strongly, even vehemently with someone's vehicle choice, but that doesn't mean I can't/won't associate with them. I have a number of friends with SUVs (although the number is dwindling as I seem to make more and more friends via the MINI club!), and heck I've even dated several women who drive SUVs. I just shake my head and suggest we take my car.

 

If I understand correctly, you're saying that if you get hit in the SUV you are safe and there won't be any damage?

US made SUV's are a body bolted to a truck frame, and as such, are exempt for most of the construction safety laws the govern most cars. Under the right circumstances, the body (and occupants) can be wiped right off the chassis, like hitting a big rig. Crumple zone are almost non-existant.

To quote Ralphie, "unsafe at any speed."

 

How about the fact that after my year (actully a total of 280 days) with 4 totalled cars ended once I moved to an SUV? No, maybe no one hit me, but maybe that had to do with my inferior size and the fact that some may try to steer clear of an SUV vs. a small compact car with high crunch rates?

I don't drive the expedition to the point of potential roll-over. But I do expect it to not crunch to a "total" factor to the same extent that a smaller car would. So far, this has worked and I haven't been killed despite an apparent "hit" out on me during those 280 days that I had to deal with 4 totals.

How about people stop attempting to judge everyone else just by the car they drive? I saw two fun loving mid-70s men in a MCSC the other day. Absolutely adorable. What about a 20-something female in an SUV? Maybe it has to do more with other people than her driving?

Stop generalizing throughout life and you may have more of an open mind than you ever thought possible.

 

 

hm. nice guy

 

1. Many SUV's epitomize conspicuous consumption.
2. Most SUV's are occupied by one and carrying no cargo.
3. Most drivers pay little attention while driving. SUV's magnify this issue due their size and instability.

 

As someone sort of said, generalizations (stereotypes) always begin as a collection of related facts.

I don't know you pacey, and you seem very nice. But I do know something about automobile construction, and the faults that can hide within.

In my experience and knowledge of vehicle design, most SUV's are on borrowed time.

 

Pacey that is a hard battle to fight here

As to the minivan argument. Minivans are dead. Have been for awhile, regardless of their utility. If people won't buy them, it doesn't matter.

BTW, today's Washington Post had another article on the guy with the vandalized H2 in DC. It cost $15K to fix it and he's moving to MD. It cost him $250 out of pocket. Guess who paid for the rest of it? Yeah, you and me and everyone else (but that is another story).

So some ppl get 24" spinners and they never see off-road. So what? That is part of what makes America great. If everyone like the same thing, it would be a boring place. To each their own. Some people buy MINIs capable of far in excess of any legal speed on public roadways. Their choice. You can't drive 140 MPH on the street so why own a MINI? (its one facet of the car).You might think those spinners ugly and useless. OTH, the SUV owners may think your roof graphics lame. Who is right and who is wrong? Thank the almighty we have that free choice.

Some SUVs are crossovers built on car chassis. Some have their own unique chassis specific purpose made as softroaders. And yes older ones tend to be based on truck chassis. I know people who own Expeditions and I always ask about how they are doing with gas. I gotta figure, gas prices have got to be killing them. But the answer is always no way. If you go the money, its the people who buy very inexpensive cars in the hope of getting good gas mileage who will be off the road because of high gas mileage first simply because ... if you got the money, it don't matter. What's your gas tipping point. I've asked that and for the people who buy the large SUVs ... I'd bet its far higher than you may think. (Tipping point meaning: At what point does gas have to go before you can no longer afford to drive what your driving? That can easily by $10 - $15. Kind of scary huh?)

Bottom line, just as you will find many, many threads that keep coming up over and over again like "Why do other people think I own a Clown Car (or you fill in the blank)?", its the exact same thing ... the only person you have to satisfy is yourself, nobody else. If your happy, that's all that matters

 

Many, most, most.

That may be true. But not ALL.

What about other generalizations out there? Where are the stats to back that up? How about racism throughout the US/World? Are you all guilty of assuming things about other races just as you are about assuming things about particular car drivers? (I will not turn this into some sort of racism rant as this isn't the place but thought to state that as an example)...

For instance - I cannot stand most motorcycle drivers out there. However, I'd never state "those damn motorcyclists - they are all idiots" because of course they are NOT all idiots. Maybe only 10% of them are and yet there are those 10% that seem to think they are above the law. SUVs may have a higher percentage (probably drawn from the fact that they believe that they are invincible in their large cars). Certainly not 95% though.

That may be true (regarding questionable construction) but the #s speak for themselves in my mind - no one screws with my SUV but they had no problem running into me in whatever small car I was driving at the time.

Lovely sentiments here, and thank you. Kind of what I was trying to get across (alas, I'm an engineer, not an english professor)...

 

and owning a $35K MINI isn't? What do you call it when a $22K car is turned into a $35K car with $13K of options and then $10K in aftermarket parts? Then people realize they have a $45K MINI Cooper and can't anywhere near they money they thought the could on resale? That's not conspicuous consumption?

And so? Most cars carry one and no cargo. It's called "freedom of choice" and last time I checked, this was still America

Of please. I've seen people put on make up, read newspapers, yell at their kids in the back seat, watch TV, and do other assorted things to not be named in every make and model car you can think of. This includes MINI coopers. To say "most" SUV drivers do that is, IMO, as ridiculous as calling all MINIs Clown cars.