Ok so the problem here is people that use SUVs as daily drivers.

I did for 3 years, due to the fact that we could not afford a 3rd car and we needed the space with the expedition. Then, recently, we finally settled down, bought a house, got married, etc. and we could afford a new car for me so that we could keep (his) car and also the expedition (which we use, as I've said, a lot).

Now, if we hadn't gotten to a place where we were able to purchase a small car, then yes, I'd still be driving the expedition daily 80 miles. I hated it, it was a waste of money and hurt the environment, but I couldn't do anything about it (except maybe sell the expedition for 6k, buy a POS car, and be very very unhappy AND not have the large hauling car we need).

Everyone has their own reasons for why they do the things they do. Maybe you don't like every reason out there, but don't always assume that everyone fits into one mold.

Great picture, looks like LA. None of those cars have the towing capacity that we need. Plus I'd never been seen driving a minivan of all things Again, I am not a posterboard attempting to sell you all SUVs. So try not to discount me for owning one.

 

I was about to post in here regarding NAM's guidelines of respect and non-political conversation, but I see the thread self-corrected quite nicely.

These inevitable SUV threads generate the most activity of 'em all.

Back into spectator mode for me.

 

Before I got my first MINI in 2005, I drove a Lincoln Navigator. I'm sure that people seeing me, a young female, driving in it alone back and forth to work everyday made the same assumptions, "soccer mom", etc. When in fact we need it to tow our jet ski, boat, & four-wheelers. So we needed something that I could use as a daily driver and be comfortable in, that we could also use for towing. I didn't particularly want to drive a pick up truck everyday. I do miss the comfortable ride and all the luxury, but I sure don't miss the gas bill. At the time (Dec 2005) I went from spending $200/mo on gas to spending $50/mo.

As for generalizing SUV drivers saying they can't park, a coworker of mine made a comment about another coworker who drove a car and how horrible they always parked, and said, "Tracey drives that big SUV and always parks it perfectly in the spot." Either you can park, or you can't, and I don't think it has anything to do with what you are driving. Just that the SUV's don't give as much room for error as a smaller car so you notice it more.

I also hate being behind an SUV and not being able to see around it, but it's usually because I'm following too closely.

No matter what you drive (as a personal vehicle), there will always be something bigger than you on the road.

 

You've nailed it. The only solution is to be at the head of the pack - no matter what

Move over for miniphatty BROOOOOOOOOM

 

Yay, my favorite spelling misuse (or pun) Not picking on you clarkdr81 but I really love wreckless (no wrecks) when people mean reckless (without considering or caring about the consequences of an action), it is cute and makes me laugh

I think the board software tends to spare me, it often stops emailing me replies in a thread sporadically and for quite some time, I though this thread had stopped but apparently not!

I know it might be a dead horse, but I can't help but feel strongly about the topic and contribute when it comes up since it is not in question that these large high personal vehicle choices absolutely present a danger to the rest of us, among other things, it is not a maybe, it is a fact (and yes big commercial vehicles have similar issues, but that is another matter and not the same topic really).

It is good to hear that some of you drive especially carefully and account for the weight and proportions of these things, but even if you are super duper careful you can get caught up in an accident and you will not be able to handle it as well, the added weight, height and handling will alter the outcome, and you will be more dangerous to those around you (and likely your passengers as well considering the much higher likelihood of rolling over) and cause more damage even in non injury accidents. Its not an opinion, those are facts.

Oh, and again, please don't park in compact spaces, doesn't matter how good a parker you are the thing is simply not compact

 

Sorry, I thought the mental picture you were thanking me for was the one of me being a wide-eyed fuming internet troll.

I didn't mean to take anything out of context. I may not have completely understood your context in some instances.

 

TReed I do believe you summed things up niceley and it sounds like we're in the same boat here (no pun intended).

eVal, what do you suggest? Are you really THAT afraid at having SUVs on the road with you? Do you run and hide when one comes near you? Jesus. It isn't like they are ticking time bombs ready to go off. I am sure that if you look at the accidents over the past few years that SUVs do not account for any higher percentage than other cars.

We are not saying we park in "compact" spaces, just that in a normal parking spot it is not really THAT hard to park like a normal person in between the lines and that ANY car can park like crap and take up 2 spaces if they want to.

& 70sPop - I think it was pretty clear that I was an idiot at 16 driving way too fast down 5 from seattle to LA in the laser. Hmm a troll image...suuuree... :P

 

I'm going to go hug my SUV and if anyone of you SUV haters asks for a ride with me...the answer's "NO"!

 

Why do you resort to being belittling and condescending with ridiculous statements like "do you run and hide?" etc - are you in grade school? Are you sure you are not from 'Taunting, MA'?

I simply made my points in response to the thread and posts as to why I don't like these vehicles. What do I suggest? Well you already got a Mini for regular driving so that takes care of a lot of time on the road for the Expedition when it is not being utilized, so in your case things are addressed already. Beyond that maybe dealing with ego issues that scare you away from using a safer van or wagon for schlepping might be worth looking into, or perhaps the future holds a van in disguise more macho crossever for you, but whatever, I again I was only posting to respond to the 'why the hating', solutions for each case to cut back on SUV usage would have to vary for each scenario.

I said that I see tons (literally) of SUVs parked in marked compact spaces, it is the way it is, seems like a lot of people just don't want to bother finding appropriate parking for them. I don't know what you do but it was just an observation about them that is very common here, check any lot and you'll see loads of them smooshed in and sticking out in spaces not designed for them (again, not an issue of bad parking skills but an endemic problem of people not handling the large wide SUV appropriately).

Over and out

 

Perhaps people hate SUVs because they have somehow become symbols of excess...the bigger-is-better, I'm invincible, my-wants-before-all-else kind of thinking. Of course, symbols involve massive generalization...but that doesn't matter...it's too late for the SUV. It's been cast as a scoundrel in the public imagination and therefore is highly vulnerable for the odd jab now and again.

 

Nope not grade school. Just got my Masters. Next up Ph.D. I surely don't fret over things that could be a potential threat at some point however.

I also believe I've gone over the necessity for the Expedition versus (oh god no) a mini van or regular van. They don't have the towing capacity, they're hideous (hello, I did buy a mini for various reasons, one of which it is so much nicer to look at than the Prius!), and the Expedition can haul a LOT more than a mini van can. And it is quite comparable in interior room to a van but still maintains some level of decency in my garage/driveway. Why do I have to give up my expedition? Why are you attempting to persuade me into getting something else?

Here, I believe I may have seen 1 compact-labeled parking spot since I moved to the NE (6 years ago). Hence, the rarely-if-ever seen SUV parked in one would really not happen. Maybe I'll get them to make giant parking spots that read: "SUV Parking Only" and see how many little cars decide to take those? Eh, nm we all already take up the compact car spots so we don't need our own spots (according to you).

 

Gosh, I was trying so hard not to post on this thread, but reading this actually reminded me of an experience I had in a parking lot recently at the Biltmore Estate. Four of us piled into my MINI and parked in a spot that was at the "end" of the first parking aisle that we came upon. The true end spaces (about four spaces) were roped off so no one could park there. I parked and as we were unpiling, the parking lot shuttle turned into our parking aisle and the driver stopped behind me and said, "Thank you so much for parking that little MINI in that space! So many times a large vehicle parks there sticking out so much I can't make this turn!" I hadn't even thought of that when I parked, just wanted to be on the "end"!

I have a very personal reason for disliking SUVs. Maybe disliking them is the wrong way of describing it, as I agree that they are necessary for some people and very useful in some circumstances. I guess I am more CONCERNED by them.

I think that, as others have mentioned but little has been discussed about, many people jump into an SUV (due to a current fad) after only having driven smaller cars their whole lives. Now, it may not apply as much to the smaller models, but Suburban size, and even Expedition size, requires FAR different driving skills than driving a passenger car. My sister lost her best friend at the age of 19 because she was riding back from school (an 8+ hour drive) in a friend's truck (F-150 I think, but not certain). The truck's owner was getting sleepy, so they switched and my sister's friend was driving. She was used to driving a Honda Accord, and when she ran off the edge of the road a little, she over corrected since she wasn't familiar with the behavior of the truck. The truck rolled and she sustained fatal injuries.

I think the "bad SUV drivers" could really benefit from a separate licensing requirement. After all, bus drivers and commercial truck drivers must have a special license due to the different dynamics of driving a large vehicle. I think that any passenger vehicle of a certain size should require the same: a driving and written exam required to obtain the license. There are drivers that don't check their blindspots because they don't care, or have a bully attitude. But there are also plenty of drivers that don't check their blind spots because they don't realize how big they are, or don't even know they are there to begin with! It's bad enough that there are some drivers out there that don't even have the skills to safely and competently pilot a Honda Civic around, let alone a Lincoln Navigator!

 

"Compact Car" parking spots must be a regional thing....I can't think of any here in the Tampa area, but I wish they were everywhere!
Well, aside from the 'golf cart' parking down in Sun City Center for the retirees...

 

Thanks for your comments. I agree, and driving an SUV IS very different from driving a small sports car. Maybe everyone should be testing for the driver's license using a variety of cars to prove they can handle all of them. I am sorry to hear about your sister's loss and do agree that it is a different type of driving required.

There are good drivers and poor drivers and really bad drivers out there for every type of vehicle. An SUV may be more deadly that the typical small car, but it also has its merits and uses. And if a bad driver gets behind the wheel of any car it can turn deadly no matter the type of car.

 

A lot of shopping/strip malls will use "Compact" spots to meet the parking requirements. Certain sized spots have to be labeled compact, and there are regulations in many cities for # of spots required in a parking lot.

 

There's a grocery store here that I suppose had a surfeit of parking space...they made each spot larger by a foot of more, supposedly to accomodate all the SUV/trucks. Makes parking the MINI pretty dreamy!!

 

Well said gokart ... I'll get back to that stereotyping later ...

How dare you speak ill will at the altar of MINI

I hope your not calling a MINI a sportscar because its a hot hatch. But besides that, thank you for becoming the NAM SUV advocate

As to stereotyping, thank you Gokart, I suggest the following ... my opinion only but I bet many have seen the following stereotypes of MINI drivers. If you haven't, I suggest you step outside the box and look from the outside in. I have observed or the read following of MINI drivers and from this, some stereotype can be imagined (real or not). MINI drivers that:

• Drive at speeds far in excess of posted limits, so far, they can't be discussed here. And further, then they "brag" in public forums of their achievements. How mature is that? More important, how much does that show regard for public safety?

• Many drive and publically say at speeds in excess of the speed limit albeit not excessive. Since much of the MINI's selling point is being thrifty and SUV bashing involves MPG, its seems hypocritical (sp) to me to waste gas driving faster than 55 - 65 when clearly you get better gas mileage at slower speeds. You can't complain about SUV gas mileage and then go out and waste gas speeding ... thats just as guilty. Oh, but wait. I've read: Well you buy a MINI to drive fast ... otherwise why own one? Hmm, seems like they are at odds, gas mileage and performance. How about, take your car to the track and do it safely and not effect the innocent public???

• Then we have what the police may call the aggressive drivers, not necessarily street racing, but clearly weaving in and out of traffic. I saw that just the other day. Oh, but wait, MINIs are nimble and good at quick turns so I'm sure they driving aggresively safely.

• Then there are those who blast their music so loud you can't hear anything else but the music. I wonder how safe that is from inside the car when they can't hear others' horns?

• SUVs waste resources? Hmm, how about MINI drivers going through brake pads, rotors, and lets not forget tires in comparison. Hmm.

• MINIs are at the extreme end of the scale being the smallest car sold in the US (until Smart does its thing). They are very difficult to see on the highways, especially with big 18 wheelers around. How unsafe is that to drive those tiny things when the average car sold in America is so much bigger. Hmm, SUVs ... maybe the H1 the largest. MINIs, hmm, the smallest. Safe or unsafe? Oh, yeah, I know, the MINIs can avoid those trucks.

• Those that that have OCD on detailing. How many chemicals are wasted by those addicted. I'm betting you don't see that from SUV owners!

• MINI clubs doing runs, social events, etc. Meanwhile where are the children? How does this effect Family Life??? I'm betting H2 owners don't do this anywhere near the excess that MINI owners do. Its bad enough American family life is deteriorating as it is and now the MINI contributes as Mom or Dad is obssessed with meets

Sound pretty silly doesn't it ... all these observation and generalizations of MINI owners? Well look from the outside in because that what the SUV bashers are doing to SUV drivers. Making generalizations that may or may not be true.

Just because you saw someone driving a car alone means nothing. Or just because you observe some particular activity means nothing. You (the generic you) have no idea of those peoples lives just like "they" have no idea of your lives. So before you bash, please take the time to think about how silly you may look by talking about being eco friendly and at the same time speeding and wasting gas ... or how many sets of tires you may go through while the SUV driver goes through one set. So the next time you speed and waste gas filling up with that premium gasoline, don't complain about some SUV getting poorer gas mileage when you don't practice what you preach.

Stereotyping is not necessarily a good thing and until you live in "their" shoes, IMO, its pretty silly.

Off soap box

 

Space is such a premium in southern california that it's always fairly difficult to park. It can take an hour to find a parking spot at the local mall. I've actually parked in quite a few spots that are TOO NARROW to park in (Normal Spots!) I'll admit, the MINI is convienent when it comes to Parallel parking .

 

Precisely. It's the 95% / 5% I mentioned right at the start (commuter use only VS actual needs). You, my new NAM friend, are part of the 5%... so your vehement defense really isn't necessary, as you were never part of the "target".Again, you aren't part of the "problem" that many of us have gripes about.Exactly, that is the point.

SUVs are "exaggeration" vehicles, compared to cars. They exaggerate parking space consumption. They exaggerate fuel consumption. They exaggerate the blockage of viewing traffic around them. They exaggerate stopping distances. They exaggerate inertia (causing much worse accident avoidance). They exaggerate damage done in accidents.

...yet they are used by so many people (NOT all) in the same way as cars, but they are still regulated by our wonderful government as trucks, not subject to the same rules.

Throw in marketing the "tough" image by auto manufacturers, sprinkle in some ego-centric "I won't be caught dead in a minivan" feelings by people who do need people haulers, and BLAMMO you have a huge SUV explosion.

Widespread SUV use (way, WAY beyond their need) does affect other people as they increase the safety risk for all of us out there, particularly without any special driver training required.

That's the bottom line - the SUV is an "exaggeration" vehicle. Comments on their drivers is a by-product of their immense popularity without any actions taken to balance the impacts of the SUV explosion.

This entire problem would indeed be greatly improved if:

1. The government closed the SUV/pickup loophole and regulated them to the same standards as cars (for safety (both passive and active), fuel economy and emissions).
2. Increased driver training and "special classification" licensing was required to drive them. Set a vehicle weight for licensing requirements and make those who want them pass necessary tests.

Put it this way - if we as a country had the good sense to treat driving truly like the privilege it is (and not the right that so many people assume)... much like Germany does, this problem wouldn't exist.Exactly. It's not just an issue between an SUV owner and their vehicle. It does extend beyond that, because we all share the same road.Bravo, well stated.

Freedom of choice is indeed an American right, but regulations need to be in-step with the greater good, and right now they aren't, when it comes to vehicle regulations.

 

Chows4us hit it right outta da park!

 

None of this matters. The only thing that matters is simply Economics 101. If they public doesn't buy them, they will go the way of the MINIvan. If they continue to buy them, they will continue to proliferate.

The larger ones will probably never go away as they are bought by the rich and they could care less about gas, more for the image. The fact they are not used as intended is meaningless to them because the uses them as "they" intend to use them. The rich will continue to drive with their 24" spinners and whatever, maybe go to Whips for some bling, and laugh at the rest of us who can't afford gas.

If and when the time comes the class of vehicles disappears, then the American public will have spoken. Until then, all the whining about this or that car means nothing. The only thing that does matter is the profit margins of the companies that produce them.

BTW, I agree they should be held to the same standard, and, in fact, most newer crossover are built on car chassis or their own unique chassis. Maybe that trend will continue and the older truck chasis vehicles will disappear.

I doubt companies like Lexus, MB, BMW and Porsche would invest tons of money on R&D to built new SUVs if they they thought they would be disappearing from the road. They are a bit smarter than that. Detroit?, Hehe, Dunno about detroit.

 

Except it was a foul ball.

 

True...but we must not discount the idea that we are sold and sold hard. It's very possible the public is not as free-thinking as we'd hope.

 

You know, the last MINI Cooper I saw on the road, true story, got fed up with track, sped up, weaved in and out, sped, and pulled away at a speed we can't talk about her on a 55 mph road.

My only conclusion is that all MINI drivers are agressive drivers who waste gasoline (premium at that), and drive recklessly without regard to the public safety (I'll give that driver the point that he/she was not street racing, for whatever that is worth). Therefore the only thing I can conclude is that all MINI drivers waste gas, drive fast, and are reckless.

Pretty silly huh?

All companies sell and sell hard. MINI sells hard. I've been seeing more ads on TV than ever. The fact is, major foreign car makes like BMW revamping its X5? and Porsche revamping its Cayenne sink money into R&D. They would not be doing this if SUVs were going away. Detroit? They are sinking so far behind they are not wroth discussing. Every company sells as hard as they can or they go out of business.

 

Yes, it does matter, because our public safety is affected, as well as the other effects.

I have no problem with having vehicles available that people want to buy, regardless of their appearance. However, I do have a problem with regulation being out of whack with reality.

This is not only a marketplace issue, this is also a skewed regulation issue. Therefore, it does matter, because regulations can be changed to fall in line with reality... and that's what we need to push for. The auto manufacturers sure aren't going to change the specifications of the vehicles when there's no profit motive to doing so.

The marketplace doesn't know or doesn't care, by and large, about these issues, because the attitude is "me first". In other words, "I'll buy whatever I want, regardless of what anyone else thinks, no matter what the effect might be on them. Screw them."

Only regulation forcing auto manufacturers to improve what is available to these consumers in the first place will have a noticable impact. Either that, or the special licensing requirements, just like there are now for large trucks & commercial vehicles. Or both.

There are some things that the marketplace won't "fix"... or will take a very long time to do so. Why? Because the priority will always remain profit (for the manufacturers) or ego/status (for these 95% SUV consumers). That's a recipe for very slow change.