Well I did it. Convinced myself that you only go around once and mailed off the registration form for EVO1 and EVO2 this afternoon. Must decide whether to take the school on my 16" Goodyear runflats which I will drive down there on or carry along the Hankook Rs2 Z212s on 15" holies that I use for auto-x. Any recommendations? I figured that this school was geared toward improving driver skill not vehicle performance, although they are interlinked, therefore I might save the Hankooks for competition. Bad plan?/allright plan?
Ben

 

save your competition tires for something else.


I ran EVO1 and EVO2 on my Yokohama AVIDs (all seasons), and didn't really feel the car suffered for it. They do nothing with car setup in either EVO1 or EVO2, and all your compeition tires are going to do for you is get worn out faster. The principles they teach do no depend on having sticky tires.

Dave

 

Thanks Dave, that confirmed my thoughts on it. I'll just run on the run flats and won't have to lug all that tire swapping stuff along. I only mount the Hankooks at home (usually the nite before) and drive to the track if the event is within 30 to 40 miles.
Ben

 

First AutoX, first win! What a Blast. And Team justacooper was well represented, Ben (impulse) took second place!
The Orlando, FL dealership, Downtown MINI put on the event, with timing support from Martin County SSC. Excellent people and well run. They did not use SCCA classing, just two divisions, Coopers and S's.
All the Coopers were on street tires, so was an even field. I was running my daily Falken ZE512's. My best time was 55.6.
The top three S's class spots were won by guys in modded cars with R compound tires. As I recall, there times were 49.8, 50.1 and 50.6.
Times should be posted in a day or so, will be interesting how well our justacoopers did against the S's, modded or not, with street tires.
Was brought home to me all through the day, how fantastic the people associated with MINI's are. I love reading about the exploits of all you real racers. I will try to work on getting on course more.
Jack

 

Jack,

Congratulations.

If you want to do more autocross look to your local SCCA or BMWCCA. Both of those are excellent opportunities.

Dave

 

We had a BMWCCA autocross yesterday in San Diego. With our local BMWCCA all of the MINIs are in one class (Cooper, MCS, GP, street tires, race tires, you name it, all thrown together).

The course was roughly 100 seconds long and consisted largely of a single turn followed by a long straight, followed by another single turn, followed by a long straight... not much transition handling to speak of, except for a 3 cone slalom that was basically one turn if you hooked it right and a couple spots.

Results:

1. 97.108 GP
2. 97.374 JCW
3. 98.265 MC - Dave - Team Justacooper
4. 99.011 GP
5. 99.078 MCc - Jerry - goaljnky - Team Justacooper
6. 99.820 heavily modified MCS
7. 100.463 MCS
8. 102.954 MCS
9. 103.057 MCc - Teresa - little egg - Team Justacooper
10. 103.078 MCS
11. 103.649 MC - Paul - Bruiser - Team Justacooper
12. 106.176 MCS
13. 108.999 MCS

 

Congrats to you guys!!!
Motor On!

 

MINIs all in one class??? Yet the results speak for themselves.

Great results for the MC!
What is missing is what tires were being run for each MINI.

For a 100 second course and be about a second within reach for an MC is excellent. And about 5.4 seconds faster than the next MC!

Dave, you need to take a run in a GP. You'd be scary fast.
:impatient :impatient :impatient :impatient :impatient :impatient

 

SCCA Class Multiplier
H-stock 0.780
G-stock 0.794
FSP 0.814
DSP 0.829
STS 0.797
STX 0.804
SM 0.845

 

Yeah, we need to figure out a way to split the class a bit. Our local BMWCCA would normally split it "stock" and "modified", but with their definition of "stock", we'd almost all be modified anyway.

Thanks I was really pleased with the results. Also, I should mention that Jerry (goaljnky) was within a second of my time in an FSP MCc.

I just pulled together a rough PAX ranking of the event results. Since this is BMWCCA and people haven't really prep'd their cars to fit in SCCA classing (except for me), I also applied a street tire index (where applicable). My local SCCA is using an additional multiplier of .98 in their SK (street tire stock) classes.

Results are first listed by RAW times, then by the adjusted PAX taking into account the street tire multiplier for those who had street tires, but who's MINIs were modified in such a way that they weren't in a street tire SCCA class (i.e. STS/STX)



I believe those are the 2006 multipliers, 2007 multipliers

BS 0.828
GS 0.803
HS 0.789
STS 0.805
STX 0.808
FSP 0.823
DSP 0.836
SM 0.856

 

Not so easy to split MINIs into two classes but one way would be to group them as MC in one and MCS in the other with cabrios joining the respective group. This would be based on HP and suspension differences.

Another way to do it is based on points. Give points to different models and different mods and if more than a few points then goes into one class and if only a lower number of points then that is a stock class.

So MC gets zero points, MCS gets one point. R compound tires alone on stock rims gets one point. Non stock rims get one point. Any suspension upgrade gets one point. Cat back exhausts are free. Intake upgrade gets one point.

Stock class could be any MINI up to one point. This would be a plain stock MCS or MC with R compound tires. Modded MINI class would be 2 points and up.

Props to Jerry (goaljnky), that was a good time as well. FSP vs HS though.

2007 multipliers! Yuk. I'm gonna get even worse results for 2007.

Good to see that many MINIs out.

I'm sure tires were a factor. The Kumho V710 and Hoosier A6 definitely helping. Still one must drive all out to make the most of equiptment. Also need to find the right tire pressures for best results.

 

Hi Dave,
Congratulations to you, and the other justacoopers!

I now have the times from our event. I was very pleased to win the Cooper class, but would like some help from those of you who really know about autoxing, in analyzing if I did well compared to others, and PAX-wise. Here is what I know:
52 total drivers, 6 Coopers, 42 S's, 2 CSP Civic (yes, we play well with others...lol, plus they ran our timing equipment!)
A CSP Civic, on R compounds, had time of 49.963 seconds. He had 2nd fastest time of day. An experienced autoxer.
A modded S (mods unknown), on R compounds, was FTD at 49.886. An experienced autoxer.
I am an HS cooper on all season street tires, Falken ZE512's, and had a 55.529. This was also good enough for 20th place overall.
Just beating a slew of S's was quite a good feeling, but this was a dealership "fun" event, and it may mean they were not great drivers, not that I did so well.
Can you tell me with the above information, how I compared to the experienced autocrossers?
Thanks,
Jack

 

Terrific job Dave How do you do that??? We have a local couple that regularly kick butt in an HS MINI (or did, they recently got an '07S so will be moving to GS, tough luck GS'ers) who I aspire to emulate eventually.
I find it interesting that dividing the HS PAX by the GS PAX gives a ratio of .98. So assuming equivalent top notch drivers, a stock S would have a 2 second advantage over a stock Cooper on a 100 second course. Or a 1 second advantage on a 50 second course. Am I interpreting this correctly? Gives a quick way to evaluate how HS is doing versus GS during an event.

Let's go kick S !
Ben

 

Thanks for the honorable mention. Yeah, this course was a killer for some reason. This is the first time where I really felt the Justacooper lacking in HP. And especially in a Cabrio the extra weight was letting itself be known. I think all my runs (including practice) were within a second of each other. So I think I squeezed everything out of the Justacooper that it had. At least with my driving abilities.

I don't know. Maybe next time I will break Dave's arm, or something. Just to make it even. (I am joking, of course).

 

Jack, you did great. Over time you'll gain experience and do better with your MC and know how to improve in many areas.

First part is know the course inside and out. Walk it every chance you get, about 5 or 6 times at least. Draw it, study it, think about where the strategic points are.

Number one priority is a turn leading out into a straight. Since the straight gives you the chance to reach the highest speed you want to enter the straight going as fast as possible which means getting on the throttle as early as possible. This is done by entering that same turn at the "right speed" which is not TOO fast, just enough to control and get out on the throttle early. Now you start the straight going max speed and keep on the throttle the whole time then brake late for the turn at the end of the straight. Your speed going into the turn and your line will depend on what comes after that turn.

For figuring out your PAX times see
http://www.scca-chicago.com/solo/indexes/rtp2007.html

Here are some examples-
For you in H-stock (0.789 x 55.529=43.812 )
For the modded MCS "DSP" (0.836 x 49.886=41.705 )
For the CSP Civic (0.845 x 49.963=42.219 )

So you needed to run that day a 52.85 second run to edge out the FTD based on the results you mentioned with your PAX in H stock. So on a 60 sec course your margin is about 2.8 to 3 seconds depending on the class you are comparing it to. More margin for highly modded cars. That means they need to drive alot faster to make up for the mods used in that class whether they are modded to the limit or not.

If the Modded MCS you mentioned had a reduction pulley of any type then that car would be in SM class (0.856 x 49.886=42.702 )

For you the biggest benefit that would be legal would be to change tires.
Using the stock rims is fine but add some sort of R compound tire.
But R compounds are only for the track or autocross and not for the street.
The only exception to that would be Kumho Victoracers which are more durable and could be driven a little on the street or Toyo Ra1s which are track tires and a little more durable.

Best R compounds to fit the stock 15" rims are 205/50-15 Kumho V710 or Hoosier A6 tires but these are purpose built competition tires and will not last that long. So ask yourself about your budget and act accordingly.

You can also use better street tires by Falken (azenis ST-615) or Hankook Ventus Z212. Regular street tires like yours can't do your MINI justice. It's to your credit you did as well as you did with those tires. Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 come in 195/50-15 and would fit. Could be used on the street and for autocross. Do some shopping and give Alex@tirerack.com a call or email for more information.

 

CSP Civic = 49.963 x .845 = 42.218
HS Cooper = 55.529 x .789 = 43.812 (straight HS PAX)
HS Cooper = 55.529 x .789 x .98 = 42.936 (applying street tire index)

Not knowing the mods on the MCS makes it hard to say, but it does look like on a PAX basis you were probably in good company.

agreed.

Here are the four that I try to focus on with every run:

1. Absolutely positively #1 - LOOK AHEAD and by that I mean, look ahead to visually pick up the next element or two that is coming at you on course.
2. Be Patient and Be Smooth - Brake, Turn, Accelerate - pick one and stick with it. If you're turning, be patient and smooth with the throttle application. If you're braking, be patient and get the braking you need to get done finished, and then turn. If you feel like you need to turn before the braking is done, you probably overcooked the entry slightly.
3. Straight line braking - get all of your braking done in a straight line. If you start turning while you're braking you're asking the tires to do two things at once, and you're effectively reducing the amount of frictional forces that can be used to slow you down.
4. Get the steering wheel unwound - With the MC and the open diff, you need to get the steering wheel unwound as soon as possible, so you can get both wheels pointed forward exiting a turn and get power down to the ground.

 

Add me to your list. I autocross also and know what the MC can do in capable hands. Thanks Derek Blanton SCR-SCCA No.71 HS.

 

sign me up!

 

Added

 

These are all good points!
1. Look ahead- what happens is turns and other elements happen fastest in autocross than any other track type driving event. I counted something like 29 turns in a recent 28 second event we had in my region. Yes there were some straights but hardly totally straight. When you look ahead you prepare for what is coming up far earlier and with greater effect to help position yourself to greatest advantage. If you react to the moment just before reaching that point in the track then often there is not enough time to being going just the right speed and be in the correct line. It's just too difficult. You'll need to practice looking ahead- this can be done on the street and in daily driving. It's good to teach young drivers as well- great for defensive driving.
2. Be Patient- yes! Recognize the fast and the slow areas on the course and be fast at the right times yet SLOW when it calls for that. If you go too fast on a slow area you will definitely loose any advantage and you will have to fight for control of your car or drive the wrong line. Being smooth helps not to unbalance the weight of your car. You'll get the best results anytime you can put the weight of your car on each tire as evenly as possible. Hard acceleration will place more weight on the rear tires, hard braking will put more weight on the front tires and hard turns will put more weight on the outer edges of the outer tires in the opposite direction of the turn.
3. Braking- Yes, straight line braking (think at least 90%+ but the less you do the more you have to do more advanced things like trail brake). Your tires cannot do braking, turning, and keep traction all at the same time to the full extent that you might want. The less braking being done once the turn is started the more you can steer and maintain traction then get on the throttle.
4. Yes, steering is key at the end of the turn. Once you plan to hit the apex of the turn and as soon as you can start to steer straight the earlier you can get smoothly onto the throttle and power out of the turn. If wheels are still turned you cannot effectively throttle up- you'd be overworking the tires.

If none of this makes sense to readers then try going to the autocross driving schools like the EVO school.

More stuff-
In order to drive well don't forget the driver needs some care too.
* Get your rest the night or two before the event. If sunday is the race then rest up friday night and if you are restless saturday night it will be ok.
* Drink lots of water from 48 hours before the event. Not too much caffeine and not too much alcohol.
* Try to eat slow release carbohydrates the night before or the morning of the event. Candy and high sugar drinks are too fast release. Starving is also not good.
* Stay out of the sun the day before- too much sun exposure tends to tire you out. And stay away from a heavy work schedule, heavy traveling or heavy mechanic work the day before the event.
* Wear comfortable clothes and shoes, bring a hat or umbrella (for rain) and dark glasses, sunblock and lip protection.
* Bring disposable hand towelettes for cleaning your hands as needed- useful for tire changes.
* Try to have less on your mind and more relaxed and just have fun.

 

Thanks guys for the super comments (Dave and minihune). Now if I can just remember and do what you say I will be much improved. I'm copying this stuff down to study. The hard part is putting it into practice.
Ben

 

Sign me up! I love my MC even more than the MCS back in '02!

 

Thanks to both of you, Dave and Minihune!!!
Reading both your comments, I can remember NOT doing the right thing at least a part of every run...lol.
I did well on the "driver care". Playing soccer under the FL sun prepares one for that.

Impulse: Hey Ben, it was great to meet you at the event. Have fun at the Evo school. I will have to sneak a turbo or something under my bonnet the next time we meet.

 

I can only hope that you will need that turbo Jack. I don't think so based on the way you drove the first time out. Great job
Ben

 

Well hello there! It is only recently that I have really started learning my way around this board.

This is my 1st year to Auto x in my Mini. Last year I had my Z06 Vette which was especially helpful in the straightaways, helped make up for my errors in the corners. Now with the Cooper I don't have that "buffer" so I am really going to have to get better.

Plan on doing the EVO this year as well. The guy that helped me last year, Danny Popp is one of the instructors. Too bad he is going to be very disappointed that I am not in a vette. I hope on the auto x track my Mini will make up for my missing of my vette :(

So if you don't mind I would love to be a part of Justacooper! Just sign me up and tell me how to put that circle thing in my sig.

Rach