Sorry to be brief, but I'm at my mom's place, on dial-up...

My MINI left me in a predicament last night to where I needed a tow truck, and my wife to come fetch me. Finally got home around 2 am, and after a few minutes of troubleshooting in my mom's garage, this certainly got my attention. I don't have the right tools here to fix the problem, but I'll do so tomorrow night..

Sorry for the poor quality photo:

 

Back home...

I got a couple of PM's asking, and the bolt that has backed-out is for the crank. I had gone with a aftermkt crank pulley some time ago...

As was explained to me, it is highly advisable to spend a couple of bucks to buy a new bolt, and to clean-out the internal threads as best possible so the threadlock can make for a stronger bond.

I know that quite a few us have gone with aftermkt crank pullies, so I wanted to share so others can be proactive and check theirs (and not just a visual, but torque check). After I fix mine, I plan to mark the bolt head and crank pulley in a few locations so I can easily determine with a visual check if it has loosened-up any...

 

Tony,
Check out this post I made a while back. You really need to hold the crank to torque the aluminum pulleys properly, and some blue loctite is also recommended. The tool to hold the crank through the spark plug threads works great and only costs about $10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spankinsum
Actually, it fitting losely is my concern. This hub just slides on without any restriction. basically lose. Like the bolt will be the load bearer and holding on for dear life. I was expecting for it to be interference fit and hoping the anodizing would keep it's color, but to my surprise, well you know.

The best way I have found to install the crank pulley is to just use the bolt to press it on, but it needs to be torqued properly to 85 ft.lbs. The way to do this is, is to use a tool which is a bolt that you put in the #1 spark plug threads, it has a brass end so as not to damage the piston. I found this out the hard way when the pulley came off at VIR. You can find this tool here http://www.tooltopia.com/index.asp?P...OD&ProdID=4744

--Dan Zipkin

--Dan

 

I also wanted to note that it had been suggested that you could put the trans in 1st gear and have someone hold the brakes while you tighten the bolt (a new bolt is not necessary). You can try this, but the engine mounts create too much movement to get the proper torque.
--Dan

 

Dan, thank you for chiming-in. My plan was indeed to put it in gear (I was contemplating 1st or reverse), and have someone put pressure on the brake predal while I tightened her up. Thanks for confirming the torque spec of 85 ft-lbs. I have stiffer than stock engine bushes, so that should help a little here. This will not be a permanent fix as I will get a new bolt, clean the inner threads, use red loctite, and mark the bolt head for easy visual inspections...

I'm guessing that most who have aftermkt crank pullies did not replace the bolt with a new one, clean (degrease) the internal treads, and use a helper on the brake pedal or that brass spark plug bolt.

What size socket do I need for the crank bolt? Packing tools now so I can get some work done after I leave the office today. Thanks.

 

Tony,
You will need a 15mm and about a 5-6 inch extension with your torque wrench. You should use a medium strength(blue) loctite so you will be able to remove it at some point (e.i. crank seal replacement)
--Dan

 

Other forum threads have said red, but if the blue is up to the task, then I'll use that. Today, I just want to torque it, and drive it home. A new bolt (with Loctite) will come very soon. Thanks again. Folks, check your crank pullies!

 

it's too bad you couldn't safety wire it . really small bit perhaps?

 

It might be big enough to safety wire actually...

As explained to me, if properly cleaned, and with a new bolt (which has a factory thread lock compound), torquing it 85 ft-lbs should do the trick. I was also just advised to use 5th gear...

 

I've only had my crank pulley on for a little while, but I'll check it. Was the pulley wobbling on the crank snout?
Something must have made you look down there.

Can you resize the pic? a little smaller.

 

5th gear does not provide enough engine compression braking, which is why you should keep the trans in 1st when your parked. In 5th, you can move the engine easily, the gears provide more leverage to turn the engine.
--Dan

 

PARTSMAN - My MCS was having power cut-off on my Mon morning commute. Got to work... On the way, after visiting my mom, it died in at an intersection near her house. It would not restart this time. Had it towed back to her house, where it still sits. Tue night is when I noticed this bolt, which only took about 5 minutes to spot. Tonight (Wed) I brought over to her house the appropriate tools, and after snugging it to 85 ft-lbs, it still didn't start...

I disco'd the battery for about 15 minutes, and still nothing. Oh, I do have (had for a while actually) a CEL, which indicates a too rich condition, bank 1 (P0172). Not too sure why it's not starting now...

I got a PM from a well-respected NAM member who said to use 5th gear. I was inclined to do 1st, but used 5th. And since my mom wasn't home, I had no one to put pressure on the brake pedal! I wedged a wrench through the rotor (Wilwood), and that allowed me to torque it...

I'll see if I can resize the photo... Done.. cropped & smaller.

 

hi, can u explain what thsi trick is meant to do? my intentions was simply existing bolts, blue loctite, and 85lbs..

 

Re: Effective Gear for Leverage

k-huevo sent this to me in a pm, I thought it should be posted, thank k

Quote:
Originally Posted by k-huevo
This is not a criticism; just an alternate view than yours in post #155 based on personal experience. https://www.northamericanmotoring.com...ad.php?t=83811

Compression braking does not come into play here; it’s about the amount of torque applied to the crank end needed to overcome friction between the pressure plate and the clutch plate and the amount of resistance afforded by gearing coupled with the grasp of the brake rotor. Any gear is affective against 85 ft-lb with a hard brake applied.

What I have discovered using a board wedged against the brake is it required less pedal pressure (board leverage) to hold the crank in a taller gear than lower one so I deduce that gearing has created an added disadvantage. BTW, Alta also suggests using an upper gear.

I see you approach as based on the wheel turning the engine instead of the engine turning the wheel.


Your absolutely right and you should post that (if you didn't already). I have found, for me anyway, because I install alot of these, that the piston lock tool is the most effective, but certainly not the ONLY way. After loosing the first pulley I had installed due to undertightening, I have used that method every time. Thanks --Dan

 

As Keith knows, without assistance last night, I was relegated to sticking a large wrench through my Wilwood rotor in order to prevent it from rotating. I got the click sound on my torque wrench at 85 ft-lbs, so I'm good to go...

For those wondering, I did fully charge the battery as I did deplete itself after so many attempted starts. Lights and other gadgets work just fine. The engine attempts to start (engine turning), just never does. I retightened the spark plugs and they (NGK's) did loosen a little, but nothing major. I will charge the battery again, and bring a voltmeter also, although my Autometer gauge I thought read that it was strong...

With the red low fuel light having come-on during all of this, I added a couple of gallons. The thought of bad gas, or a failed injector crossed my mind...

Thoughts and ideas welcome! Thanks.

 

EDIT: Computer malfunction

 

The engine turns over normally?
Are you getting spark?
Are you getting fuel?
Were you tinkering with anything before?

Just one failed injector will not keep it from running.

 

Next, I'm yanking the IC tonight to check below connections...

The engine turns, attempts to start, but not over per se. With my busy schedule the past couple of months, no tinkering as of late. I did have the too rich code for a while (pretty much after a header install), just never made the time to investigate further...

What's the best way to discern if I'm actually getting a spark or fuel?

I'll inspect the fuel rail, and possibly the injectors tonight. I was hoping to watch some college football! Oh well...

 

To check for fuel...

...turn the key to position 2, unscrew the shrader valve cap(#2 in this pic)and push down on the core a little, WHILE NOT LOOKING DIRECTLY INTO IT, you should have fuel pressure there. You can also use a external fuel pressure gauge designed specifically for this.

To check for spark, pull one of the plug wires and stick an old plug in the end, or one from the car if you don't have an old one, and rest it someplace on the engine where it will not move while the engine cranks. Have someone crank the engine while you watch the end of the plug to see if there's an arc. It's possible the plug may have to be touching something metal to ground itself.

 

Are you using a jump pack or a battery charger to charge the battery. Try jump starting directly from a car before you go tearing it apart. The MINI's ecu is very tempramental to voltage. A weak battery will cause what you are experiencing.

 

You guys are awesome!

Keith actually mentioned the battery again, and given that I have a lightweight one (Braille), this could be the culprit at this point. I will try jumping it first! If that doesn't do the trick, then I'll proceed to investigating fuel delivery and spark...

Thanks for your assistance PARTSMAN and spillman.

 

The MINI is still inoperable .

It certainly appears not to be the battery. I tried jumping it with my wife's car to no avail. At one point I put her battery in the MINI, and that didn't do the trick either. Interestingly, the MINI's Braille fired-up her car with ease! So, I would surmise that the battery is not the culprit here. Too bad, as that would have been easy...

I do seem to hear the fuel pump doing it's thing, so I don't think that's the issue. I checked the #02 fuse in the engine bay as that apparently provides power to it, the fuel injectors and crank sensor, and I'm sure other items. That fuse looks fine, and tested fine with my meter. I've been getting great assistance via PM's, and even via the phone from a very kind NAM member!

However, if the pump isn't operating, then the main relay may not be supplying power. I will need to check this next. And if the relay is ok, then the DME may not be recieving the "ok" to energise the relay signal. That message is sent through fuse 34, as explained to me. I checked fuse 34 in the footwell, and it also checked-out fine.

Funny thing... after reinstalling these two fuses, and pushing-in relays, an attempt to start worked! But, after about 1 minute, it died. I tried two more times, and got the same (started and ran, but only for a short time). I tried to replicate this by pulling the fuses again, but I didn't get the same results. By virtue of it starting, it is now believed that an EWS alignment is not the issue...

I did not pull the IC tonight, but will tomorrow. I was really hoping that it would be the dang battery! I will inspect lines, fuel rail etc...

I pulled the connector on the coil pack, and reinstalled it to make sure that I had a good connection. I had probably removed it a couple months back for a header install... New plugs about 6 weeks ago, and they are snug. I took my UNIChip out of the loop. I disco'd the battery for 15+ minutes. I've added some more fuel as I was getting a bit low, and thinking that it might dilute what could be some bad gas causing this problem...

There is a thought that it could be the crank sensor. This is not the easiest thing to get to, but I will do so after I check-off easier possibilities. I will pull the spark plugs and inspect them. I will clean my air filter (HAI), check TB and intake route the best I can. Next the fuel rail and injectors (thanks PARTSMAN). I should also check more into that relay as it might not be providing power. But since it did start a few times, I would guess that it's not a faulty relay...

Also, upon trying to start, the tach indicates about 200 or so RPM's. I'm not sure what that might indicate... I still have a CEL, but for the life of me, my CarChip E/X is not capturing it as it still shows only the older ones (too rich, bank 1) on previous dates.

I promised a couple folks that I'd update this thread, so there you go! I'm all ears and open to ideas... Thanks.

 

After several PM's with and even a phone conversation (thanks 002!), I had plenty of info in which to logically troubleshoot this issue. I wanted to get back to this thread in order to share, and give it some closure...

With the battery not being the issue (see above post), I began the focus on the fuel. I definitely heard the pump upon start-up, which was reassuring. And as per PARTSMAN's recommendation earlier, I had pressure in the rail a la that valve at the end. But, I wanted to see if the injectors were firing, or being allowed to do so...

After pulling the injectors and cleaning the rail, I put everything back together. Instead of inserting the injectors, I wrapped the 4 ends in paper towels, and left the rail unmounted. I then turned the key... and after inspecting the paper towels, each had soaked-up fuel, and equal amount at that. Fuel seemed to be fine...

I was next going to test for spark, again, as per PARTSMAN above. However, after doing much reading last night, I became more convinced I should try yanking the engine relay. I did that, and every other relay and fuse, with the battery disco'd for 15+ minutes first (think I read that in the Bentley manual)...

I reinstalled the fuel rail (I dropped a dang retaining clip though) and the intercooler, and after clearing-out tools, I turned the key and she fired-up! I turned it off, and then reinstalled the UNCHIP, and it started again and ran with no problems.

If this ever happens again, I'm going to play with the relays/fuses first!

Given the code (P0172 - too rich, bank 1), I decided to check the 8 bolts that secure the header to the head. A got a bit more torque on a couple, but they were pretty good actually. Not too sure why I'm getting that code. Maybe the UNChip needs a tune after the header... however it was pre-mapped for one though...

Keith, Jeremy, and others in this thread, thanks for your input.

 

Cool!
Glad you got it worked out Tony.