LOL have I been flamed?

I don't want to go out and get a S-AFC II then find out it wouldn't work with the MCS or done some damage to it hence my previous post. Another problem is, being in Australia, it's either gonna be order the S-AFC from my Japanese parts guy or the Select from the US. I'd appreciate your time and effort to do write-up on this if you're willing to write it up it doesn't look like I am the only one wanting the info either

Without sounding like an idiot (and I've read all the post thank you every much) so the Select is in fact an ordinary S-AFC with the European wiring diagram? Like I've said, I just wanna be 110% sure before I head out and grab an ordinary S-AFC.

 

earlier in this thread, and on other threads, others are talking about how they have the S-AFC I and II installed on their cars and are running HIGH horsepower figures, so as to not get confused between the units, ALL A'PEXi fuel management products work with the MCS granted they are installed correctly

and no, the S-AFC II and AFC Select are not the exact same unit - the S-AFC II comes in silver with a blue display or black with white display, whereas the AFC Select comes only in black with a blue display.... so therefore they are not the exact same unit....

sometimes my sarcasm takes over and i have no control..... my bad

 

Well that clears it up I was skeptical about it is because Pilo had a PDF on how to install it and that mentioned the use of their Tacho converter/adaptor thing. If it's as easy as splicing the loom and hook it up, great, I'll grab one then

 

I am really interested in getting a Select, especially whilst I am out here in Japan

First things first...

1) Has anyone run the Select with the MTH remap, or any remap for that matter? Can you forsee there being any problems in getting the exact A/F ratios that your state of tune require?

2) Secondly, with the use of larger injectors, is it possible to INCREASE the fuelling at certain parts of the RPM range to dial in extra protection/safeguard against detonation? It's just that my MTH maps all seem to have a lil bit of pinking between 5750 and redline...

Sorry if this has been discussed previously

Cheers,

Henry

 

Please don't flame me.....

Why isn't anyone questioning the knowledge of all these guys buying the Apexi
unit, without even the basic knowledge of tuning, A/F ratios or anything else
that has to do with the safe running of a highly tuned vehicle, in this case a
supercharged one.

So Bob goes out and buys a Apexi unit from his local Honda tuner, gets a diagram from God knows where. He proceeds to hack in to the fragile wiring harness with a vengance . Bob feels good, he is ready to extract the
maximum amount of horse power, Which must be somewhere between 7-29hp. He will not be happy with the lower number, and he is ready NOW.......

He parks his butt dyno in the driver seat, and looks at the Apexi unit with
excitement. He decides that more is better as he want's results now so the
leaning out of the engine begins .

The engine revs to 5k and the smell of burning clutch compound is intoxicating........Vroooomm damn this car is fast he thinks. Meanwhile
the A/F ratios are reaching 13.5:1 and the cylinder temps are reaching
super critical temps, putting so much stress on the cylinders and the reciprocating parts that.........Kabooom.

This scenario will happen, as the knowledge and the experience of tuning a
MCS is not in the grasp of most of us.

This was not meant to rain on the parade, but a sobering look at what will
happen when the "Cognescenti" has to much power IE. the possibility to
change what they don't know.

peter

Team M7
562-608-8123

 

WoW I never think of that way. Thank you peter for adding a light in the tunnel.

 

Very true Peter as i was reading this thread I was thinking this sounds good I will be able to tune each time for my mod's but never thought about my ability to do this !!!!!!

so as a question to Andy if you dont like the piggyback system and i agree what do you recommend in the way of ECU tuning what have you got installed
some people say go with MTH but that is not perfect either
any advice would be apperciated

 

Peter, very valid point raised in regards to people chasing huge number without thinking the consequences but one question from a n00b like myself, isn't all engine the same so long it needs fuel, spark then fart things out? So long everything is monitored before/while/after tuning, shouldn't that be safe? Obviously water/oil/exhaust temp will have to be looked at, A/F Ratio and someone listen out whether the car pings or not. My 6th sense tells me that's all there is really to look out for...I wouldn't mind learning something new so educate me

Not that I'll be tuning it myself but rather a professional tuner that has been tuning cars for years. Fingers crossed they won't blow up my engine!

 

keep your inconsiderate comments to your self clevy
that guy put a lot of valuable time into writing those documents
for the benefit of everybody
personally if it wasn't for the invaluable info contained in them i would never have fitted my 15% pulley
some of the site administrators should have a quite word in your ear
and remove that comment
a little bit of gratitude and respect

 

You keep the AF ratios in what is a known safe range and you extract as many ponies as you can SAFELY. Wonderous things happen when you tune with a dyno.

 

I'm currently running the GIAC program for 19% and 380cc injectors. It works great, but there is undoubtedly some horsepower left on the table since it isn't custom tuned for my specific car. Hopefully, we'll see chiptuners releasing products that allow users some degree of tuneability, flashing through the diagnostic port. In the VW world, the three major chiptuners all have such tools available (GIAC's Mobile Tuner, APR's V-Tune, and Revo's Lemmiwinks). I believe that all three offer safeguards to only allow tuning of timing, fuel and boost (for turbocharged engines) within certain limits.

 

Peter,

While you make some good points about tuning the MCS, your references to me are totally inappropriate and a form of personal attack and ridicule. No where in my post

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...1&postcount=55

do I indicate that I would be tuning my car! I reported observations from a recent dyno run, as well as suggestions from some very knowledgable people who have years of experience building and tuning performance automobiles. Furthermore, if you're going to quote me, then at least use correct spelling --- cognoscenti not "Cognescenti".

 

You must be kidding me Bob, I wasn't thinking about you, your car
or your project.....period IE. I couldn't care less.Bob was a euphemism
for the average [B]joe[/B, oboy I hope Joe doesn't complain to .

Seriously Bob, no offence was intended

peter

 

Peter,

I don't know about you, but I don't need or want a 'big brother' to lock everything down. Even if he believes he is doing it for my good, and because it is his responsibility to protect me from myself. Uncle Sam's doing that job for me/you already

I'm certain we can all agree that power in the hands of a fool is dangerous. ...However, all too often information is controlled & witheld to encomber. ...To keep the uniformed ignorant, helpless and beholden to those with knowledge. Look no further than BMW's diagnostic tools & codes as a MINI-specific example. MINI/BMW goes to lengths to protect this information. Knowledge is power, and THEY want to control it. It makes them $.

 

Alright guys, again this is getting out of control - on the same thread!

Peter is absolutely right, do NOT install this on a car and try and tune it yourself. That being said, I kept my A/F ratios still on the rich side when tuning (ON A DYNO, nonetheless), and have decent numbers to show for it.

Do the same and don't make your motor go KABOOM!

This message brought to you by the INSANELY OBVIOUS foundation - in case you weren't aware that critical engine tuning is a serious matter, we're always here when you had no idea you needed us........

 

I was going to insert a long rant here, but have decided you're just not worth the trouble.

I've over here asking for a REAL tuning device and vendors like you are over there telling everyone they're too stupid to deal with an AFC... one of the most basic tuning aids on the market.

There is no good reason for the Mini tuning market to consist of nothing but dumbed-down plug and play junk and locked-down, return to your vendor for a slight change, solutions.

 

amen.... some think it is rocket science

 

JeffS, go re-read the second sentence Peter wrote there. Here's the important part of it

without even the basic knowledge of tuning, A/F ratios or anything else
that has to do with the safe running of a highly tuned vehicle, in this case a
supercharged one.

His whole example was based upon this presupposition.

So, go ahead and stand on the sidelines and take potshots...you're obviously really good at it.

 

Frankly, peter's rant has some value, but I would apply it even more broadly: to those fiddling with their brakes, control arms, etc. for the first time...where a real danger to the innocent can occur. I've brought up the issue of personal liability before, but it doesn't get much respect.

 

The people who are modifying these things themselves, should take responsibility for their own actions. Be it suspension, engine or even wheel and tire modifications. Educate yourself concerning these and either do it yourself or pay someone that has done it many times before.

 

Absolutely! However, in America (and in other parts of the world), we're being brought up to put responsiblity on others when we ourselves screw up. So this is why vendors now have to take the high road and be careful as to whom and as to what they say.

 

I'm the one that Peter writes about. I have no mechanical experience. I have no performance tuning sense. I don't even own a set of wrenches. But after reading about the APEXi, I started researching it and I'd be the stupid one to try something and blow an engine.

I think Peter was speaking to the uninitiated, like myself. That's not to say that I'm not capable of learning performance tuning. After all, I'm a database architect at Microsoft and am quite the expert in my field. HOWEVER, my field is not automotive performance tuning.

Thanks for the advise, Peter. I'll stick to what I know and pay those of you who are equally skilled at the tuning to give me want I want...

MORE POWER!!!

Regards,
Rob

 

...as bullets whiz past my head...

That kinda sucks that people like myself have to be scared to ask questions without it resulting in bickering back and forth.

However.......I do appreciate being able to ask questions and get answers and valuable information from fellow experienced mini owners/tuners.

I, personally have no intention of trying to tune my car myself, but rather, was trying to find out what works the best, for both my application and intentions on my car...so that I could then hand it over to Ron at Axis Power Racing here in st. louis to tune it on a dyno for me. I like the ideal of being able to have my car tuned after each upgrade, and knowing it is specifically tailored for my setup and local conditions...where as you dont get that with a re-flash...and I feel more confidant about that statement seeing the wide range of dyno numbers on perfecly stock cars. Plus...I will have real factual numbers to back up claims, and so I know, mostly for personal reasons, how much my power my car is making at any given point in time.

It seems to me that there is no real differences other than cosmetic and supplied documentation between the S-AFC models. Therefore, I will be getting my S-AFC 2 installed in my MC and tuned on a dyno (by someone with a great deal of experience in this area) on the 25th of this month.

I have not seen any figures of MC's being tuned like this yet, and will be happy to post the results up here for you all to have a look at.

So...thankyou all for your input...and you will be hearing from me after my day on the dyno.

 

Well, I don't mean to throw water on your fire, but I have to say something before getting your hopes up about being on the dyno. I had installed a S-AFC I on my Honda 3 years ago and wanted to get it tuned so bad, but held off install after install for the reason I am about to explain.

I recommend getting an AFC for all my customers who are looking for streetable tuner cars. To all my turbo customers who are looking for serious tuning applications, they get the GReddy E-Manage unit, which none of us could truly utilize. But the one thing in common with all these cars is that their air/fuel tuning takes place in correspondance with having new injectors installed, which I do not see you having.

To modify the air flow coming in and the air flow coming out will cause the motor to send slightly different signals to the ECU and vice versa. These are called "bolt ons" for that very reason; they bolt on to the car and not much changes. For vehicles that simply have bolt ons, even on the turbo cars we work on, we don't normally recommend getting any serious A/F correction work done on the dyno, as it won't yield any net gains that account for the expense of dyno tuning - unless of course you have one in your back pocket in which case I invite you to tune the hell out of it every day, or at the very least, every season when temperatures and pressure fluctuations take place.

When installing larger injectors on a car, however, the MINI will attempt to correct the duty cycle of the injectors, which it does a fairly decent job of, but cannot retard the flow as much as calibrating the ECU might, especially if you have such a tool to do it, by installing the AFC. While driving to the dyno, I crossed a 2 lane highway in which cars were coming at me at 70mph, and my car literally SHUT DOWN because it was running as much fuel as it was by simply installing the 440cc injectors. My car currently has no use for such high injectors, but we're hoping to change that soon enough....

Think about what jlm was saying about his tuning experience, though dissimilar because he was tuning a MCS, I know. He netting a 10hp gain from simple dyno tuning and ANOTHER 14hp gain from installing 440cc injectors. From my glances at my dyno tuning a fuel maps, my car was running WAY too rich and put down pathetic ~170fwhp figures. After mildly optimizing the fuel curves on the AFC Select by turning the fuel correction down 15% almost all the way across the board, low and high throttle, the car snapped to life and reached 200fwhp after letting it cool down between runs and having three fans nailing the intercooler. That's near 30hp gains from tuning that could not have been achieved without larger injectors.

My thoughts? Get the AFC installed, but hold off on the idea of "high performance tuning" until a few more mods are installed. Get some more power items, including better spark and anything else made to increase power and driveability of the MC, and then have it tuned. Just my 2 cents from doing this sort of thing for 8 years running....

 

Number one reason I went with the AFC instead of GIAC. Tuning as many times as my bank account can allow after installing more parts - even with being as conservative as my fuel correction was. More parts mean more utilization of the 440cc injectors I have!

But like Peter said, butt dyno tuning is for fools! So stay in school, fellow MINI tuners! Or something to that effect.....