From the OBX website
"Professional Partners:
OBX has developed manufacturing partners worldwide with the strictest quality control standards in manufacturing."

Wouldn't it be funny if they were actually made in the SS plant.

 

I don't think it's an attacke on Italy, but it is a demonstration that everyone's sh*t stinks.....

Matt

 

It is clear to me that Italy has a high cost of production and operation of any industrial venture. Look at the facts, they are even highlighted in bold for the slower ones. What is your problem?

 

Group,

First I would like to apologize to The MINITOR for posting off topic on this thread. I have been kindly asked to post here to hopefully answer some questions regarding headers. Supersprint has been developing and producing high performance exhaust systems since 1955. With this experience and the developmental resources Supersprint is often the first to come out with a new exhaust program. It is not uncommon for copies to be made. This usually mean poor understanding of the component and thus a poor copy is made. This also means that no R&D time needs to be factored in when selling the product. Usually poor materials and craftsmanship is used because there is no long term goal. This is unfortunate for Supersprint, but that does not mean Supersprint will stop developing the best exhausts possible for years to come. Please see the link below for an example of copies and what the typical end result is. Thank you all for you valuable opinions on this subject and a special thank you to TonyB for bringing this to my attention, you are a gentleman. Thank you all for the support and Happy New Year! Chris




http://www.supersprintna.com/technic...ca_headers.php

 

Hey no problem, I have enjoyed the debate and don't mind the off topic, my question was answered. And thank you for chiming in.

 

what is being discussed is not capitalism.......supporting these types of rip off artists discourages legit vendors who pay for R&D from bothering with this market. When there is no return on investment...the investment stops....the rip off people don't develop new products....they just rip off and the legit guys.... they find something else to do......bottom line..... the Mini market may lose......or may not.

This is like telling teens to quit smoking.....

 

By putting in the R&D, they get the first mover advantage, ie they get to harvest the high $ when there are few choices in the marketplace. But then copies will come... And if the first mover wants to keep the $ flowing, they should respond with price reductions. If you look at the price of an Intel processor, it starts high, and follows something that approximates an exponential decay curve, with two types of downward discountiuities. One when Intel does a new processor, the other is when someone like AMD does a product introduction. If Supersprint wants to keep their market share, they need to respond with either feature changes, or price reductions when the competitive landscape changes.....

This may get lectury again, but capitalism and competitive forces are very bloody, no holds barred ugly "screw your neighbor" type actions. Lowest common denominator... not pretty, but that's the system on which our countries economy is based. Without IP protection, that's how it works. If you can't get your R&D back via the first mover advantange, you have a significant problem in your business model.

Matt

 

Sounds like competition in a free market to me. Sorry, Political Science major here.

 

Sure, I'll bite.

I read your "area of the world" to very clearly mean Asia, where labor is typically more affordable. Is that what you meant? Not sure otherwise...

 

I'll post the link after it's up. Then we can have the competition discussion be on topic somewhere else, instead of off topic here.

Matt

Here it is....

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...519#post775519

Matt

 

Thanks Dr. Not that I minded the off topic hijacking, or that anyone will answer the original question after this mess. But its the thought that counts.

Well I better move to the new thread.

 

“Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in”

Been a busy day... but I'll comment on a few things, and wait to hear back on the "geographic area" part later...

So how about pullies? Am I running an “original” pulley? I realize that not everyone has been on the MINI scene for 3+ years, but let me address this. First though, let me answer the question… no, I’m not running an original aftermkt pulley. And many other folks are not either, and for good reason. The reason is competition… real, true competition that has a way of making things better. The original aftermkt pulley required heat to install it. Some of us certainly remember the toaster oven... The competition didn’t just copy it, but they made it a little better, evolved it. The company that made the original has now employed this self-centering, positive stop design that no longer requires a tricky mechanical press fit. There have been subsequent additions as well. So, I did not buy a ripped-off clone. I purchased an improved design, one that utilized creative thought and that took things to the next level.

Also, a copied pulley was an option at Pulley Parties, and some folks were not happy as they wanted the real deal. I was there in-person, and it also made the boards. To say that only the OBX gets this type of wrath is incorrect. Remember, this thread called-out the OBX for comparison. With that there is input as to how folks feel. If it would have been simply a “header” in general, or any other one, this discussion would probably not have surfaced. I’ve had these feelings for quite some time, but until asked, I had no reason to share...

Ok, CAIs... The first, at least here in the US, was probably the Rogue, or Madness, depending how one looks at things. There have no doubt been quite a few since, and fairly similar. And even while not identical, they too have not escaped such scrutiny. A NAM member (then called MCO) emerged as a vendor with an intake, and he got a fair share of ‘same thing’ ridicule. It was the same basic concept, sure, but besides it being much less expensive, he had his own heat shield (not a copy), and filter, with unique color. Not necessarily better per se, but different, enough to distinguish it and lure attention for its own merits or uniqueness. Other intakes have different filters, filter types, box modifications, provisions (strut bar) parts removed, parts added, along with various color options. No CAI offering that I’m aware of is identical to another or is an exact copy, ie same heat shield, filter, parts, etc. They at least took the time to design and create their own unique offering.

One of the sad outcomes of this is that folks start to expect that headers should cost 100 some odd bucks. Sure they can be sold for that, but only if someone like SS first performs the R&D to make it happen. And if they don’t, it never comes to market, and there won’t be an OBX-like company to cheapen it (not just price) for those waiting for such...

If folks are fine with the OBX quality and support, and don't mind how they did so, it's a no-brainer then. It is however a poor analogy to compare the OBX as it was here (pulley & CAI)...

FWIW, the SS header has adjusted its price over time. There have been threads about MINI aftermkt prices being high, and the reasons for that. I'll not go there, but just say that the reasons make sense, at least to me. We don't exactly have many companies bringing new stuff to market for our relatively small Community. As Bob (SpiderX) said, with the likes of OBX, if I were a firm such as SS, heck I might not consider investing my limited resources into this small market as I may not sell enough before the vultures come in..

Chris, thanks for chiming-in. For those who PM'd me, but don't want to get in the fray, I understand, and thanks to you also...

Ciao

 

By the "letter" of the law you are correct.....by the "spirit" however that is a different story. To compare an Intel chip with a Supersprint exhaust is rediculous. For a ton of reasons..... just one of which is that the Intel chip "IS" the processor for the finished product from the OEM. Last time i looked a SS branded header is not the "stock" part on the Mini witha sticker that says "SS inside." As far as "capitalism," again, "letter" and "spirit" are two different "tests." Competition etc. is a chief tenant of capitalism, no doubt..... (I could add the text book chapter here but for brevity I choose not to) Investment , private ownership, all major components. If you don't see the difference between the private sector engaging in investment, development, taking the risks of market acceptance, getting a reasonable product life cycle, engaging in the 4 Ps of marketing etc, and,........... ripping off a design...... I don't care if it is technically legal,...... in my book, and I am apparently in the minority here, it is not competition, it is stealing and wrong. Trust me I understand your point...... I just disagree. I have to deal with stuff in a very real way every working day of my life. I have seen up close and personal the effects of this new morality regarding "knock offs."

 

You read me right. I have to assume its an ASIA issue for there is no outrage when it comes to clone pulley's? or CAI for that matter.

SO this has nothing to do w/ capitalism, patent rights, proprietary rights, ect.... but appears to be racial bias.

 

Let's post to this issue over there, please....

Matt