Hey it has turned into another Unichip vs. MTH / piggyback vs. reflash thread, which is fine by me because that was my next question. I've always sided with MTH but so many Unichip users praise theirs and I also don't have a laptop for the MTH. More thinkin to do I guess.

 

Just another public discussion between two techies!

Matt

 

I'm not sure about that. Look at it as if the MINI is a rifle with a scope and isn't quite hitting its target. You could:

1) Adjust the scope using the internal adjustments to get it pointed straight and true so that your bullet ends up in the right place. This is akin to chiptuning.

2) Install a second scope on the gun that corrects the view from the first scope so that your bullet ends up in the right place. This is akin to using a piggyback.

A piggyback offers an offset that may or may not be appropriate for a given situation. If the Unichip really were user-tuneable, it could be easier to stomach the limitations, but as it stands the Unichip:

Costs more money than most chips.

Requires more money to be spent to be "tuned" by a Dastek dealer if you want to change anything.

Has a proven track record of worse performance than stock (I realize that there is only one data point showing that but there are NO user whp dynos showing a gain in power).

Corrupts the signals producing unpredictable results both for driveability and diagnostics as detailed above.

 

OK, but what if someone offered you there used chip for $100, tuned to the same mods that you have. Would you grab it as a bargain or still wait for the MTH?

 

For $100, I'd try it and sell it for more than $100 if I didn't like it.

Paulmon's dyno showing WORSE performance with the Unichip than without:

 

But just because there's only one published data point doen't mean that there are no unpublished data that shows gains....

I think TonyB is gonna get his tuned around here somewhere. When and if he does, we'll see if he'll post... He and I have done measurement before, and shared the results....

Then will have one data point showing worse, and maybe one better.

I too share the frustration at "secret" numbers. If I measure it, I share it so others can learn... But that's just me. At least the roads are getting dry around here. I have a bunch of tests coming up.

MTH vs MTH Tuner.
Stock Oily vs Stock Clean vs Coated Stock Clean vs Coated Gen 1 Alta TMIC Clean. (Hope to get benefit of OCC out of this as well).
HAI vs Stock Airbox.

Matt

 

just to test and see what's up! But then, I'm the curious type, and experimental by degree and nature!

Matt

 

i think you should get the MTH tuner file upgrade.. i have had nothing but sucess with it..

 

For the reasons stated the Unichip is not the perfect solution, agreed. GIAC will not custom tune and "custom" tuning by sending files back and forth is not my cup of tea.

There are those that argue that any kind of signal processing in an audio path which changes the linearity of the signal is technically "corruption," however this is the way it is done. Every recorded piece of music has some sort of "corruption" to the original signal. The end result is pleasing to the listner of the fans of that artist. Every concert the same....... this use of the word corruption is interesting...... (I guess salt and pepper and cooking for that matter is a corruption of the original design.....)

The audio analogy holds up pretty well...... ideally we all want to listen to music from the instruments 4-10ft away in the perfect acoustical environment but since that is extremely rare we deal with the compromise........ not perfect but not so bad in most cases.

 

You are correct Matt. The comparison will be with a map that is supposedly tailored to my mods already though. I will of course share...

And as you know, I post-phoned this tuning due to other looming mods, namely an IC that I should have fairly soon. The tuning will entail full and part throttle, and some of it will actually involve real driving, on a paved road, with the hood closed, and air molecules doing what they normally do under real-world conditions...

I put much credence in this approach, as well as solid testimonials from respected NAM members like onalsed and SpiderX. These guys have done much to their cars, and have shared the good and not so good along the way. Their objectivity and impartiality carries much more weight with me than a potentially flawed data point (number)...

The MINITOR, to your question, although I haven't had my UNIChip dyno-tuned yet... I'd recommend it over your only other option, the OBX header. I too have considered a header, and although I will get one later (with a head), I might actually go with the SuperSprint. As Andy shared, the OBX appears to be a dead-on copy of the SuperSprint. I like to save money like anyone else of course, but the idea just bothers me... I'm finally putting my legal degrees to use with my employer as I deal with fraud investigations, cf, grey market, warranty/contract abuse, etc. So, I have a soft spot for supporting those companies who actually invest the time and resources to design and create product. Plus, jlm has the SuperSprint header, and he's really smart!

The word "corruption" has negative connotations. Andy has not been a fan of the UNIChip, so that (his choice of words) is understandable. I suppose someone promoting it would say that it "enhances" or "massages" the signals . Being objective, the unit is modifying the signals from the TMAP sensor...

 

Now I get your point.

I can appreciate some of you guys are "capable" of tuning but as a whole if I was in the "chip" business I wouldn't want to sell a tuneable file because many who are not capable would attempt a tune and when things went wrong it would be the "chip name" that took the hit.

 

The Unichip is not "end user" tuneable.... Only "dealers" get that function.

 

you can get stuff to tune the chip yourself. Everyone in those communities (I'm most familiar with the Mustang crowd) knows that if you cooked it, it was operator error. If the "don't let the end user do sh*t" theory dominated everywhere, you wouldnt' be able to edit your Windows registry, as an example. You get to, and if you screw it up, it's on you. I just don't buy the above arguments.

Look at the Apexi S-AFC. One of the real appeals of that is YOU get to change the fuel maps. Too bad it doesn't do timing as well! And yes, you can really lean out your car, and blow it up.

I want the ability to tune, optimize etc. I know that risk comes with this, and I'm willing to assume those risks. I just wish someone had a product for us that would fill this particular market demand.

Matt

 

Yet.....

 

I don't get it either but that is the way it is.

 

so is mth a better solution for us nutty people out there? and is it "safer" than "corupting" the signals for the engine?

 

I'm certainly not the most knowledable on this topic, but with regards to safety, I'd rather have someone dynamically tune to my unique car and its mods, as opposed to someone remote guesstimating values, and how that impacts something as important as A/F mixtures...

 

I've gotten MTH tunes that ping pretty bad, and I did a free flow exhaust that cooked a cat becasue I didn't have the right tune for it.

MTH tuner is pretty easy to get optimized for WOT, because you can send them wide-band plots to get better WOT A/F ratios.

Tony's point about the dynamic tuning from the UniChip are correct, but then you run into the issues that Andy has pointed out. Since there is no perfect solutions, chose your devil! You're gonna have at least one.

I think EvoTech tunes the ECU, and can do it dynamically (the Souther Cal EvoTech place did a dynamic tune on a Cooper S build up in European Car). Dinan tunes for their mods, but I don't know if they offer dynamic tuning.

I'm no expert, so I'm sure there're others out there as well.

Matt

 

If you are talking about actual tuning, I agree. But if you are talking about using a piggyback to try to fool the ECU to achieve the desired result, I disagree.

 

So is there any way to get a perfect MTH Tune off the bat? I'm starting with the alta CAI. Basically I'm looking at getting a solid program working in the mini that gives me some power "OOPTH!"... Is there a way to run through the power band with your car while it's hooked up to a laptop to send them off a file?

 

Mabye Alta's Hydra will be just what the Dr. ordered . If not, I'll stick with UNIChip, until something truly desirable becomes available to us...

 

But even if you log the A/F with the stock sensor, it doesn't give you enough information to tune A/F ratios.

Sorry, but you need a wide-band for that. Search on PLX-500 for more information about installing one brands wideband...

Matt

Also, Andy did a post showing the output of a wideband vs the car's narrow-band.

 

I think I'll just stick my head in the clouds and pretend I understand nothing then drink a beer

 

I have ridden in some cars with the standard mods of CAI, exhaust, pulley and the MTH worked really well...... when you start to add injectors, intake manifold, header, TB etc things get a lot more complex. The solution is to have MTH with you at the dyno to tune your engine under a variety of loads and conditions. WOT is easy,...... it is all the varying conditions of normal driving that take some "artistry." While I can't disagree with Andy, his position as usual is well taken, but for the more complex modded cars something that can custom tune, fool, cajole, hoodwink, lie and deceive into performing better will be my choice until a better alternative comes along. My car runs strong and smooth and before Josh Murray of Unichip did the custom tune it only felt strong at WOT. Since the custom tune the car feels smoother and stronger across the board.

 

And eventually, someone will hack it and share.... Just a matter of time. I hope....

Matt