Wow, what a great misinterpretation of what I wrote.

I made exactly two points in this thread:

1) Ryephile has exhibited a pattern of sending unsolicited rude and vulgar emails in the past. (Note that he hasn't disputed any of his quotes that users posted).

2) The experiences in the Neon community may have some benefit for us in the MINI community.

Ryephile, from which of those points did you get the idea that I believe that "Everyone that runs a light crank pulley will have their cars explode in a fireball instantly"?

 

I wish all this BS would stop. I've been the auto parts mgt. field for almost 37 years now and what one or two people say about a product can be completly different from another. I've seen products come and go. If you don't like a product and your worried ,Then don't use it. STOP THE BS.

Look at all the different ways people build race cars and engines. Some guys like some products and others use something else. Every product you use to increase horsepower somewhere down the line wears on a car or engine. The car manufacturer only builds what gets them the most reliability and the least cost. Warranty cost is an evil word to a car manufacturer.

Give it a break. If you like a product use it. If you don't like it don't use it.

 

This is the Performance Mods :: Drivetrain forum, where parts/methods/etc are discussed and analyzed. It's normal to have differing opinions on parts and one need not have bought a part in order to have something useful to say about the design or concepts behind the part. If you don't like reading such opinions, you may be more comfortable in this forum:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...splay.php?f=38

 

Yes . The Great Andy replies. Mister Negative. It's funny how your opinions always seem to be the right ones. You always knock down others when they say something or have views different then your. It's always the same Andy.

You right and most of us are just dumba$$es.

 

I don't follow you. Why would anyone express an opinion if they did not believe it is correct?

Anyway, I'm sorry if you view me as being negative, but I really am offering a suggestion to you for a forum that better meets the expectations you expressed.

 

I'm not trying to get on anyones bad side, but I wanted to chime in here. To a degree "in theory" the statement was correct that without a harmonic dampener you could induce crazy effects, ie with natural frequencies. I'm not going to douce on anyones "testing" but just think about the theory.

If the harmonic damener is not needed one of the possible reasons it was used was because in manufacturing your just plopping and going, they can spend less time and the tollereances can be off. Yes heaven for bid, +or- 1%? If that is not put on the crank just right could it not cause "problems"

Just an idea, i'm not a bmw engineer and DON'T KNOW WHY they installed it. All I can do is speculate and use my engineering skills I have learned from college. Put all of your pride asside and THINK ABOUT IT FOR A SEC.

WHY IS THERE A HARMONIC DAMPENER ON THIS PULLEY? rather than bashing lets figure it out, and maybe we can help dispell myths.

OOH WE CAN BE LIKE MYTH BUSTERS!:e ek:

 

Existence as proof of need is a leap I'm not prepared to make.

I've lived in my house for about five years now and last week, for the first time ever, someone installed about ten speed limit signs in the 1.5 miles from the main road to my house. I could say "they wouldn't put them there if they weren't needed", but I know that's wrong. They put them there to shut up the handful of noisemakers along the route - most of whom probably just moved in.

Not the same thing? maybe not... maybe so...
If we were asking the actual person/people who made the decision, then fine, it's a valid question.

 

joe-cur:

not directed at you...I was quoting ryephile's hate remark. from now on, to avoid confusion, less discretion will be used.

 

See the only thing I can think of is people are flamming here because 1 they have NO IDEA WHY IT'S THERE or why it's not on the lightweight one.

If someone knows something about this, chime in, don't be a flamming ***. Your just upsetting people for no reason, does it make you feel better? When you were a kid where you the one who was picked on?

CONSTRUCTIVE POSTS HELP THE COMMUNITY AND HELP KEEP IT ALIVE!

 

I think it's odd that this is one example where so many people conclude that a part is bad - without any evidence to backup their claims - then sit back and expect people to prove that the pulley wouldn't cause any damage.

Things typically just don't work like that. Failure is generally proof of a problem. With all the tuners out there running these, you would think that a clear pattern would have been detected by now. You would also think that the people so opposed to the idea would have collected evidence of these failures.

It hasn't happened. I've only read one post ever where a person had pictures of uneven bearing wear - which they supposed might have been related to an aftermarket crank pulley. That was about four years ago now.

I'm just not sure why the debate rages on. THERE IS NO PROOF EITHER WAY. If you're "scared", walk away. If you're not, then spend your money. This isn't some snake-oil product like "magical plug wires". There is a definite benefit of running it - and the only choice is whether you're willing to accept the possiblity of additional engine wear to achieve it.

-----------

It's funny that we never hear the panicked cries when discussing the installation of a lightened flywheel, or different weight pistons/rods...

I mean a smaller supercharger pulley, or anything else that boosts power, shortens component life much more than a stupid crank pulley, yet noone's talking about that either.

 

yah but see the problem is this, the crank pulley has a harmonic dampener on it. WHY? to reduce natural frequency problems? I guess you never saw a certain bridge in what was it washington? It when you hit the natural frequency and stay there for say 1-minute or so what do you think happens? talk about fatugue in the internal engine, OMG. I'm not sure people want to walk away from the mod, its clearly going to "FREE UP MORE POWER" but at what cost?

I'm not saying your wrong that there are no problems, I'm not saying anything in fact, all I'm saying is THINK ABOUT IT! Let it go in your mind and flutter around like a little birdy. What does your gut tell you? Just think, thats all I'm asking for here.

 

Thank You JeffS

 

This is OFF TOPIC, but necessary- let's actually try to stick to the topic at hand, please?

There seem to be a few violations of site guidelines here. First, rule 2:

2. RESPECT [is a two-way street]
When posting, both members and vendors must ALWAYS be respectful of fellow members and vendors. Personal attacks and flames will not be tolerated. If you feel you are being attacked, report the post rather than replying or flaming back.

This also violates rule 1:

1. ON-TOPIC
Posts must be on-topic, relating to discussion of MINI's or other NAM discussion areas. Posts in the wrong discussion areas will be moved without notice and posts that are not on topic for any NAM discussion area will be deleted without notice.

More breaking rules 1 and 2 [funny considering the text of the post]:
And, after asking to stay on topic, again with rule 1:

Again, rule 2, respect:

You don't make fun of a person's name only to say you will try not to offend him again?

The FlynHawaiian is right:

 

at the risk of violating rule XXX: i have praised joker's phonetic lingo in the past, I like it; that was my lame tributory attempt at a phonetic rendering of his name. My point was that since I had too discretely omitted quoting RYEPHILE's name as the source of the hate remark, JOKER thought I was referring to him and I wanted to clear that up.


Sorry joker

as far as the topic, if there had never been any discussions, pro or con, who gets served by that?

typically, the vendor hawks his wares...that's his job. the tech nature of the forum then jumps in, an that is its job.
the goofy part is that certain individuals form their position based on personalities and consider any opposing opinion as hate or nay-saying. All the tech opinions, pro or con, I have seen here are personality free. It wasn't until RYEPHILE dumped his angst that it got weird.

Frankly, I would defer my final opinion on the pulley to the experts, but it is interesting to discuss.

 

I will ask the moderators to pare this back down to the topic.

 

If anyone has a spare 2005 (newer 5 lb version) factory crank pulley laying around (lying around?) can I have it?

 

Glad to see you've changed your mind.

 

"Frankly, I would defer my final opinion on the pulley to the experts"

Please where are the experts, give me names or emails I will start emailing right now.

 

I actually had one revolation about the lighter weight pulley, it does lighten the load on the bearings in that area . So on one hand you are improving the life of something in the car

 

jlm...its k00l.
wow what a mess, i think we should get back on topic cuz i really want to know more about this magic pulley stuff...

and Rhyphile's bashin' should not be tolerated....& will say it again, "I have lost all respect for him" indeed.
he cant even set himself right ( no replies/explanations/apologies)

 

My only question about this cranky pully thing, lightened... If I take off my 5+ pound pully to gain 7 horsepower on my 2005 jcw by putting on the alta pully or another manufacturer, will my engine still be running and happy at 150K+, as long as I take care of it otherwise?

 

thats what we are trying to figure out. If the crank pulley can cause some type of catastrophic failure or not. The only way to figure this out is for someone to go 200k miles, and we need like 10 people. so start driving if you have a crank pulley.

 

Not to throw a kink in the works but Randy Webb has said before that the company that makes the supercharger says it is good for 150k miles. I don't know if this is with the stock pulley, unmodified or what.

 

Please keep personal attacks out of the discussion. There is some good information and potential for discussion regarding the need (or not) for a damper. Let's not bury it with ad hominem attacks on the forum posters themselves. Doing so will only get the thread locked or pulled out of view until it gets edited and returned

Ideas:
Necessity of a damper on I-6 engines due to long, flexible crankshafts rather than a short, stout crank in an engine with close bore centers, like the 1.6.

The act of installing a pulley of any type will act as a tuning device changing (lowering) the harmonic frequency of the 1.6, and will having a typical aluminum lightweight pulley on the engine work adequately as a 'damper' in the higher rev ranges to the point where it becomes a non-issue.

 

Randy has stated this, and I know others have posted it as well, but here it is again:

The damper is there more for belt driven accesories, not to save the crankshaft. The crankshaft has bearing centers much closer than almost any other motor out there NOT running a damper, and the crank itself is forged on our cars.

Just because it is there doesn't mean it is needed. There are too many design parameters for the engineers to consider other than longevity and performance to make that blanket statement.

-Brian