I figured that in itself would be fairly obvious to one as "astute" as yourself, Andy.

Because no one else had.

It's not about swaying decisions. It's about making sure people understand what they may be missing before making a decision. Since neither Randy/WMS nor Spiderx, nor anyone else deemed it necessary to warm people of the potential dangers of their product, or anyone else about any product with similar characteristics since the same will be true of any product producing potentially harmfull sound levels, it seemed appropriate to do so. I'm not with any company, I'm not trying to sell a competing product, I'm not trying to single handedly cause the downfall of WMS. I just happen to know a few facts that may not be such common knowledge, and felt the need to share.

I'm so impressed that people can look past imaginary ulterior motives. It helps so much to restore my faith in the human race...

So crucify me for giving a **** about my fellow human why don't all of you?

 

Hmmpff calm down... Have you not read Randy's and Spidy's posts saying that they indeed ARE testing the noise levels of the exhaust. And secondly, the exhaust with the cut-out open is for off-road use only, a.k.a. the track, so if anyone (myself included) is going to use the cut-out on the street, use at your own risk. Also, Randy's saying that hearing damage depends on a number of filters in no way insinuates that he does not take your thoughts/worries into consideration or care about his costumers hearing. And on another note, Spidy is running an aftermarket header. After all, this IS a PROTOTYPE...

Now back to the exhaust... Any news on the OEM Header v. Milltek Header comparisons?

 

Honestly, I don't care about any of this political bull that you all have going on here.... But from what I understand it won't be legal on the track, open or closed at this point. I think the limit is 95 dB from 30 feet correct me if I am wrong (I don't even have to say that... yall will correct me if I am wrong anyways... and say that I eat babies in the process or something like that).

As far as I have been taught... this is just someone trying to point out that at the current testing levels this will be dangerous for your hearing... That is all he is trying to do... this thread is ment to inform... Good... bad... and ugly (thats me) So people shoulden't jump down others throats for just pointing out something they don't want to hear.... hell use this exhaust long enough and you won't hear anything you don't want to... or do want to for that matter

 

Talk about your misconceptions, when I read this from Randy Webb, “Yeah, you're going to have to be careful, because installing it, the old one may fall on your head...”; I had this vision of Larry falling into the engine bay. Then after the site came back up, re-read it and realized it was the old exhaust he was talking about. I’m probably the only one that thinks this is funny and someone will scold me for being off topic.

 

no... pretty hilarious...

 

Actually, it varies from track to track.

The most restrictive I know of is 92 dB, which is pretty outrageous - that's Laguna Seca. The thing about dB measurement on the track is that it is off to one side, pretty far from the track most of the time. If you are twenty feet away, that would be a drop of 3 dB.

Also, the measurements are drive by, whereas the ones we are discussing in the thread are in car with all of the ambient noise. They also only measure from 500 Hz in most cases. What does all that mean? Even in its prototypal form, it is legal on almost any track.
The point I want to be sure of here is that the system under discussion is that - a prototype.

Again, as in the first post where I mention polotics, I apologize if I offended everyone. I deal with crap pretty much on a daily basis, and it gets old. I haven't released this unit yet, and when I do, I will have more data than any other manufacturer has released with an exhaust system. That's what kind of irks me is all. We do the testing, offering the data and backing up what we sell, yet we catch the most crap for it. Their are vendors out there who do no testing at all on a product, and still sell it, yet catch no flak at all. At least give us the credit for making an effort with testing to bear out things like dB and frequencies that may be offensive!

This system will be right when it comes to market, or it won't come to market, period.

Again, I hope that clears things up!
Randy

 

Randy I give you props . This thing will be dope. I really like the idea of being able to drive down the street and be quiet or as loud as possible. What most of you absolutly don't understand is that all he has to do is make it really loud and really quiet, respectivally and there is a valve Tune it to fit your style.

No big deal. To some people who would like to track there cars, like me, it's nice to have 2 options in an exhaust. Instead of badgering him, I respect the man for doing a great job of thinking about the "average afternoon track dude"

Randy keep up the good work. The politics and what not in the past 10 pages has gotten out of hand. Just keep up the good work. My only suggestion is it would be really nice to have a "stealth" system when you wanna go down the street and scare the crap out of your friends by flipping the switch and then all of a sudden growling.

Stealth mode would be cool, like as quiet as can be

 

Randy,
Keep up the good work. Most of us I do believe, are thankful that you are taking the time test before releasing this unit to the general public. I, for one, am awaiting the arrival of your exhaust before adding this MINIBLU.

Thanks for all that you do for the MINI community!

 

Randy, I agree with whskysouth, most of us are VERY grateful that you are putting in a shytload of R&D and then some on this exhaust. I would love for this unit to be out by christmas, but if it can't because of testing, well then i'll just have to wait. Keep up the good work!

 

I supported Randy on this for quite sometimes, because I believe in his work and he does quality job.

On the other side, I can understand Samurai Will's concernes as well.

No offense to anyone but, I find vendor-NAMer fights very immature, childish. I just had a bitter taste from M7 tuning, because they literaly told a friend that "he was bitching". I believe vendors should be a little bit more defensive and act accordingly rather than hitting back at people with heavy words.

my 0.02

 

Believe whatever you like, but honestly I was just trying to help.

I guess that's what you get around here, though.

 

Unfortunately, that is the atmosphere here in these recent months.

It wasn't always like that, and customers and vendors alike got along. I for one would be much happier were it the same as in days of old on MCO (Mini Cooper Online). I certainly don't want to attack anyone, but I think the days of sitting back and watching have to be over for self preservation's sake. I was trying to understand motivation and learn the issue, and I think Will and I have gone back in forth in PM's enough to understand each other.

Politics in the MINI arena are downright silly, and I have dealt with them by necessity rather than want. They have absolutely tarnished my innocent view of people, and I regret that.

Sincerely Will, I appreciate your concern for others. Please just wait to get the facts on the production system in a comparison with the stock system before warning others about losing hearing - that's all I ask.

I am sure we can all get along!

Thanks,
Randy

 

well said! very good!

Mike

BTW Randy did you get my PM?

 

I think we understand you were trying to help. Sometimes its just the way that people do it, is what really gets them. Put yourself in randy's shoes.

He's really trying to make something that everyone will love from the picky to the non-picky person. If you have ever built prototypes you would realize how many revisions you make with things.

This may be revision 2, but from the sounds of it randy is not "perfectly" happy. And if your on the track and running this maybe randy should just put a warning in the box.

"While the vavle is open, it is recommended that you wear ear plugs". I think this would cover the safety aspect of the exhaust

Keep up the good work, sam don't get upset just realize you sounded a bit hard on randy for his prototype work

 

Since I am the one who did the testing.....in the "A" weighted mode according to the text the car is "safe" as is........All the numbers posted so far are "C" weighted. I did flip the meter to "A" while driving and was amazed at how much the meter dropped. "C" is full bandwith and A resembles the human ear (thank you Samurai )

There are two issues....one of comfort and the other of safety........

The frequencies that are the most offending are the higher ones and they are also are more directional. In a "drive by" they are 90 degrees off axis so they will be further attenuated. I actually have the equipment to measure this in detail that I'm sure that most of the auto industry has never considered and knows little about. One more thing when you double distance you lose 6 db from a source like this........ the outside measurements were from less that 4 ft. so at 8 ft you are down 6 db and 16 ft down 12 and at 32 down 18 db.......if the measurement is 30 ft even on axis you are about 90 db and if the measurements are at 90 degress that will attenuate at LEAST another 6 if not 12 db maybe more depending on the radiation pattern with respect to frequency and amplitude. According to what I have read in this thread,....I think from a "track legal" point of view there is no issue.......from a "comfort" point of view.....that is another story........ let me say this...... the guys working on this are VERY smart (count me out) and VERY experienced in a variety of VERY high performance cars.......Until I posted audio numbers, I have never seen an audio spec in any manufacturers spec sheets or propaganda......... if need be I could supply Randy with much more detailed data but this is probably unneccessary.

From a power point of view, I have an appointment at the Dynojet tomorrow at 6:30 PM to test the Milltek...... I am curious about the power difference

 

lets start a new policy on slamming. i have not posted much, but have followed this forum for a while. if you have a rude thing to say about a product or mostly a vendor then email them directly! i for one want to read about new products and their development, good and bad. if you do not like something, make a constructive suggestion. when i saw this db crap i thought enough is enough. safty to your ears, give me a break. ever been to a top fuel event? how about a supercross event?( motorcycle). cart race how about nascar? better yet listen to the harley davidsons on the streets. i really don't think mr. webb intends this exhaust to be run open while driving on a trip or through town. i think it is for having fun while enjoying a spirited drive through the twisties, and to make it easy to run at the strip, without having to change your exhaust. i think when this system is ready for release, it will probably sound between a 1 ball and a mild sounding performance exhaust. the man is pioneering a very nice way to have the best of both worlds, let him do his thing!! i do not have any of his products, but it is obvious he tests and this gives all good info. if everyone slams these pioneers, they will not let anyone know about there new stuff until it is ready for release. look back in time, what was the first telephone like?
to randy ane the rest, please keep us informed.

 

Actually, if I recall correctly LRP is 88 dB. AXs held here in the Boston area by multiple clubs at restricted to 90dB 'A' weighted at 100 ft. And everone thinks CA is the land of PC. Try New England sometime.

 

That would mean that at 3 ft ie behind the car you would be putting out 120 db......in the "A" scale that is rediculously loud? Is that a drive by 90 degree reading?

 

Hmmm... don't know the math, but it certainly doesn't seem particularly loud when we've tested it and found cars at or very near that level. I.e. there was no discomfort experienced in the starters tent which is mere feet from the start line where the cars are at full throttle. Yes, it is drive by, although its rarely at 90 degrees. The limits were imposed as the result of a single complainer, so tests are done at the end of the course nearest his domicile, which is a corner so the numbers there are taken straight to the exhaust pipe, under acceleration.

 

There is nothing wrong with an open discussion regarding aftermarket or OEM products. However I feel the comments have been misdirected. Randy always goes the extra mile (and then some) to assure that his products are effective and reliable. IMO the same can't always be said about other aftermarket manufacturers or even MINI USA. Not only does Randy do extensive R&D, warranties his products but has competitive pricing. My only complaint is that Randy's shop is in Colorado and I live in California. I hope to see other Mini owners at the upcoming L.A. pulley parties.

 

Public service announcement

Radio Shack sells a very good and accurate for this purpose SPL meter for about $35.

rule of thumb says that when you double the distance SPL attenuates 6 db.

for those that care,.....all the math is readily available

 

Link for the interested: http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/gbssc...nd/u11l2b.html

 

While Will does have a point in the quest for public hearing safety ... does ANYONE ... ANYONE ... have empirical evidence of ANYONE losing hearing from listening to loud STREET exhausts for ANY amount of time?

Not people who are in an industry where loud noise is part of the business (e.g., running a dragstrip) but Joe Average Citizen. If not ... let it go. I am sure Randy will sort it out for all of us.

 

Let's just wait and see what the results are from Randy's OEM Header v. Milltek Header comparisons... And the costumer will most likely ride with the closed position most of the time i bet..

 

Not my wife.... She said if we get one, she

"ain't turning off any switch".