Drivetrain New Intercooler - Manifold
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4th Gear
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: Southern California
Originally Posted by conehead
Ahamos I think you are on to something.[font=Courier New]I did a little online search regarding RMS and came up with this link. If you look at it you can see tht it is a entire RMS product and nowhere is the word " Gintani " mentioned.
BzzzBom
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 48
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:08 am Post subject: RMS Water to air / intake manifold kit Reply with quote
Race Marque Systems (RMS), a long-time BMW tuner is now getting into the Mini business. In the next several months they are marketing their patented closed system water to air intercooler / intake manifold kit. I spent some time talking with the owner, Osh Minelian yesterday at his shop in Van Nuys. The kit is claimed to decrease intercooler outlet temperatures 60 degrees over stock with a corresponding increase of 30 whp. RMS plans to sell the kits to Mini tuners but will be installing them at their shop for the next year. This is all new to me - I would appreciate feedback from other SCMM members (hint - Bob W). RMS is located at 14418 Oxnard St, Van Nuys, CA 91401 (about 15 minutes south-east of Steve's). Phone: 818 778 6106. Website - www.racemarque.com
_________________
2005 Cooper S w/ 15% Alta pulley, Alta CAI, "one-ball" exhaust, 62 mm TB, H-sport springs and rear sway bar, Steve's rear, lower control camber arms, Kosei K-1 TS wheels / Yokahama EVS ES 100 205/45-17 tyres
And on a funny note as the post below by Recoop / Bob on the same thread doubting the performance calims of the product.Additionally it is clear that Bob must be aware of the RMS / Gintani connection. MY how things change . Maby he got a hell of a discount LOL [/font]
[font=Courier New]
Bob Winer
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Posts: 414
Location: Long Beach, CA
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 10:19 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
Larry,
As stated by others, the claim is a tad high. Also, Bill pointed out that a more efficient intercooler helps to decrease the loss in hp, rather than add hp to the system. There has been and continues to be a lengthy discussion/debate about the best type of intercooler, including its location. There are many variables that need to be considered when contemplating a different intercooler --- e.g., type of driving, type and extent of existing modifications (% pulley, head, cam, etc.), ambient temperature, speed, etc., etc. We must not forget that the stock intercooler is fairly good under most conditions. When the car is really pushed to extremes, then a more efficient intercooler might be considered. Of course, cost of the IC is another very important factor. I put in the GRSmotorsport air-to-air IC because I have a 19% pulley and because it seemed like reasonable value to me.
What is the projected cost of the air-to-water IC you mentioned, and when will it be available? Where on the website are pics of the unit?
_________________
Bob
2003 MCS IB/W + a plethora of mods and then some...
2003 Audi RS6
Sponsor: Bank of America Loan Department [/font]
And last but not least the big question of coolant capacity, weight and cost have been nicely avoided still. Things that make you go HMMMMM.
BzzzBom
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 48
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:08 am Post subject: RMS Water to air / intake manifold kit Reply with quote
Race Marque Systems (RMS), a long-time BMW tuner is now getting into the Mini business. In the next several months they are marketing their patented closed system water to air intercooler / intake manifold kit. I spent some time talking with the owner, Osh Minelian yesterday at his shop in Van Nuys. The kit is claimed to decrease intercooler outlet temperatures 60 degrees over stock with a corresponding increase of 30 whp. RMS plans to sell the kits to Mini tuners but will be installing them at their shop for the next year. This is all new to me - I would appreciate feedback from other SCMM members (hint - Bob W). RMS is located at 14418 Oxnard St, Van Nuys, CA 91401 (about 15 minutes south-east of Steve's). Phone: 818 778 6106. Website - www.racemarque.com
_________________
2005 Cooper S w/ 15% Alta pulley, Alta CAI, "one-ball" exhaust, 62 mm TB, H-sport springs and rear sway bar, Steve's rear, lower control camber arms, Kosei K-1 TS wheels / Yokahama EVS ES 100 205/45-17 tyres
And on a funny note as the post below by Recoop / Bob on the same thread doubting the performance calims of the product.Additionally it is clear that Bob must be aware of the RMS / Gintani connection. MY how things change . Maby he got a hell of a discount LOL [/font]
[font=Courier New]
Bob Winer
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Posts: 414
Location: Long Beach, CA
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 10:19 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
Larry,
As stated by others, the claim is a tad high. Also, Bill pointed out that a more efficient intercooler helps to decrease the loss in hp, rather than add hp to the system. There has been and continues to be a lengthy discussion/debate about the best type of intercooler, including its location. There are many variables that need to be considered when contemplating a different intercooler --- e.g., type of driving, type and extent of existing modifications (% pulley, head, cam, etc.), ambient temperature, speed, etc., etc. We must not forget that the stock intercooler is fairly good under most conditions. When the car is really pushed to extremes, then a more efficient intercooler might be considered. Of course, cost of the IC is another very important factor. I put in the GRSmotorsport air-to-air IC because I have a 19% pulley and because it seemed like reasonable value to me.
What is the projected cost of the air-to-water IC you mentioned, and when will it be available? Where on the website are pics of the unit?
_________________
Bob
2003 MCS IB/W + a plethora of mods and then some...
2003 Audi RS6
Sponsor: Bank of America Loan Department [/font]
And last but not least the big question of coolant capacity, weight and cost have been nicely avoided still. Things that make you go HMMMMM.
Bob S.,
The above response of mine to L.C. was before I was aware of the exact design of the Gintani product. Once I saw it, I decided that system was what I wanted. The elimination of the stock path from the supercharger to the intake manifold was appealing, as was the integral liquid-air intercooler/intake manifold.
If you have any questions/concerns about the manufacturer, the company, or specifics about the product itself, please address them to the manufacturer.
However, with respect to weight, I will say that one needs to consider that stock hardware is removed (IC with its plenums, the intake manifold, and the under-hood air diverter).
Enjoy your car...
3rd Gear
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 213
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"On another note do you have any idea what the system might add to the weight of the car and how large the water capacity will be. I think the downfall of many H20 based intercoolers is that the coolant supply is too small to prevent heat soak. The catch 22 is that if you add more coolant then you add more weight to the wrong end of the car . Isn't R & D exciting 
"
Any news with regards to these questions?
"Any news with regards to these questions?
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4th Gear
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: Southern California
Originally Posted by conehead
"On another note do you have any idea what the system might add to the weight of the car and how large the water capacity will be. I think the downfall of many H20 based intercoolers is that the coolant supply is too small to prevent heat soak. The catch 22 is that if you add more coolant then you add more weight to the wrong end of the car . Isn't R & D exciting "
Any news with regards to these questions?
"Any news with regards to these questions?
As I mentioned above, one will need to factor in the loss of weight from removing the stock parts. I cannot answer your question regarding the net weight gain for the system because I do not have that data. I'm sure that when the product is released, such information will be made available.
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4th Gear
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 399
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From: Southern California
Originally Posted by conehead
Tick tock Tick Tock This is making every other mfg look golden as far as new product releases goes. What can the delay be when it was supposedly ready in JULY ?
This is making every other mfg look golden as far as new product releases goes. What can the delay be when it was supposedly ready in JULY ?Why don't you contact the manufacturer and ask them directly? Perhaps they can explain to you the nature of the temporal factors in their product development and manufacturing processes.
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2005
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........NiCE set up though
yea i saw! u typed intake but read instake should of known, my bad!?!?!?
Originally Posted by TonyB
In one of the photos provided, I saw their unique logo...
This one:
This one:
do u know....
so is it a 'MM' kit?
Originally Posted by jlm
this unit appeared a year or so ago fitted to a car. there was a bit of discussion then, but we never saw any numbers.
3rd Gear
Joined: Dec 2004
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No numbers seems to be the norm with new intercoolers for some reason For $2 ,000 tho this system looks like it has a lot of nice hardware especially the laminova cores which should actually work . I think the MM item might just be the CAI unit and not the entire system. I could not find any info about it on the MM site itself.
For $2 ,000 tho this system looks like it has a lot of nice hardware especially the laminova cores which should actually work . I think the MM item might just be the CAI unit and not the entire system. I could not find any info about it on the MM site itself.
neither could i so i also looked in the 'Go Mini' mag but did not see it in there, might not have that particular issue!?
Originally Posted by conehead
No numbers seems to be the norm with new intercoolers for some reason For $2 ,000 tho this system looks like it has a lot of nice hardware especially the laminova cores which should actually work . I think the MM item might just be the CAI unit and not the entire system. I could not find any info about it on the MM site itself.
For $2 ,000 tho this system looks like it has a lot of nice hardware especially the laminova cores which should actually work . I think the MM item might just be the CAI unit and not the entire system. I could not find any info about it on the MM site itself.
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,253
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From: NY NY
it was a stretch, but using the search function, under laminova, this popped out:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...light=laminova
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...light=laminova
3rd Gear
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I just checked a SEMA show guide and did not see that they did not have a booth so I thought I would go back thru the thread and see if there were any other un answered questions .
On 6/13 the initial post of this thread stated that the product was done and awaiting dyno testing.
On 6/18 you mentioned that a representative from Gintani would be addressing this forum directly . I have not seen that as yet either .
On 7/02 you mention that your car will be dynoed " shortly " .
On 7/02 you allude to several new products on the " horizon " and you will be posting the results from installation on your car here. Any further details on these new products?
On 8/03 you mentioned that the car was to be dynoed the previous week but you found some " faults" and the test was postponed. You also mentioned that it would not be " too " long before the other Gintani products were released.
On 8/18 you mention that you still can not test the car do the " problems ".
Now add another 3 months to the last post for a total of five since the first mention and we still do not know what the unit itself will cost, provide performance wise or even weigh.This product has set new records for hype and that is going some on this board.
On 6/13 the initial post of this thread stated that the product was done and awaiting dyno testing.
On 6/18 you mentioned that a representative from Gintani would be addressing this forum directly . I have not seen that as yet either .
On 7/02 you mention that your car will be dynoed " shortly " .
On 7/02 you allude to several new products on the " horizon " and you will be posting the results from installation on your car here. Any further details on these new products?
On 8/03 you mentioned that the car was to be dynoed the previous week but you found some " faults" and the test was postponed. You also mentioned that it would not be " too " long before the other Gintani products were released.
On 8/18 you mention that you still can not test the car do the " problems ".
Now add another 3 months to the last post for a total of five since the first mention and we still do not know what the unit itself will cost, provide performance wise or even weigh.This product has set new records for hype and that is going some on this board.
5th Gear
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 928
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From: Raleigh, NC
While I agree with you, continuing to bring the post back from the dead is just increasing their free exposure.
Personally, I feel that if moderators aren't going to delete these advertisement threads, the best thing to do is ignore them. I know we all like hearing about new stuff, but the waiting gets old.
I see more "we're working on this", or "future release" threads on this site than any other car board I've read. Thinking back, a large percentage, if not the majority of these new and great products have gone nowhere, or never lived up to their initial hype.
Maybe we need a pipe dream forum where vendors can spam to their hearts content and all the people who want to read about them can go fill out their wish lists. I, for one, don't even want to hear about a product until I can call up and have it shipped to me that day.
Personally, I feel that if moderators aren't going to delete these advertisement threads, the best thing to do is ignore them. I know we all like hearing about new stuff, but the waiting gets old.
I see more "we're working on this", or "future release" threads on this site than any other car board I've read. Thinking back, a large percentage, if not the majority of these new and great products have gone nowhere, or never lived up to their initial hype.
Maybe we need a pipe dream forum where vendors can spam to their hearts content and all the people who want to read about them can go fill out their wish lists. I, for one, don't even want to hear about a product until I can call up and have it shipped to me that day.
5th Gear
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 949
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From: Charlotte, NC
Don't lose hope. Unless I'm mistaken, this is the same piece Randy Webb is going to offer. If that's the case, it's legit. I've never caught him hyping anything. If he carries it, he'll test it first and it will perform as advertised.
5th Gear
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 949
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From: Charlotte, NC
Originally Posted by JeffS
Maybe we need a pipe dream forum where vendors can spam to their hearts content and all the people who want to read about them can go fill out their wish lists. I, for one, don't even want to hear about a product until I can call up and have it shipped to me that day.
As for the pipe dream products, I'm willing & able to use the old BS detector as needed.
Randy is good but...
Originally Posted by eMINI
Don't lose hope. Unless I'm mistaken, this is the same piece Randy Webb is going to offer. If that's the case, it's legit. I've never caught him hyping anything. If he carries it, he'll test it first and it will perform as advertised.
I'd agree that a lot of this trouble is created by someone (not always the vendor, the first AGS posts weren't even by M7) who creates to much expectation for progress or deliverables, and then real life happens, and the community is left with a miss match between reality and expectation. Always a recipe for dissatisfaction.... This thread is a case in point. If all the posts promising dates had said " this is how far we got, and we don't know when we'll be able to post more" most of the critism wouldn't have happened.
Matt