Drivetrain New Intercooler - Manifold
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4th Gear
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: Southern California
Originally Posted by conehead
I just checked a SEMA show guide and did not see that they did not have a booth so I thought I would go back thru the thread and see if there were any other un answered questions .
On 6/13 the initial post of this thread stated that the product was done and awaiting dyno testing.
On 6/18 you mentioned that a representative from Gintani would be addressing this forum directly . I have not seen that as yet either .
On 7/02 you mention that your car will be dynoed " shortly " .
On 7/02 you allude to several new products on the " horizon " and you will be posting the results from installation on your car here. Any further details on these new products?
On 8/03 you mentioned that the car was to be dynoed the previous week but you found some " faults" and the test was postponed. You also mentioned that it would not be " too " long before the other Gintani products were released.
On 8/18 you mention that you still can not test the car do the " problems ".
Now add another 3 months to the last post for a total of five since the first mention and we still do not know what the unit itself will cost, provide performance wise or even weigh.This product has set new records for hype and that is going some on this board.
On 6/13 the initial post of this thread stated that the product was done and awaiting dyno testing.
On 6/18 you mentioned that a representative from Gintani would be addressing this forum directly . I have not seen that as yet either .
On 7/02 you mention that your car will be dynoed " shortly " .
On 7/02 you allude to several new products on the " horizon " and you will be posting the results from installation on your car here. Any further details on these new products?
On 8/03 you mentioned that the car was to be dynoed the previous week but you found some " faults" and the test was postponed. You also mentioned that it would not be " too " long before the other Gintani products were released.
On 8/18 you mention that you still can not test the car do the " problems ".
Now add another 3 months to the last post for a total of five since the first mention and we still do not know what the unit itself will cost, provide performance wise or even weigh.This product has set new records for hype and that is going some on this board.
Your selection of reference dates is interesting, as is your exclusion of some important posts from me, including, but not limited to, the following:
#114 wherein I report a series of dyno runs on my car, including one with the Gintani system. I also mentioned a damaged header from previous work that had been done by a different shop in Southern California. Please note that, for what should be obvious to many, I have chosen not to elaborate any further on that problem. The header will be replaced, but on my schedule. When that is done, I'll be doing more dyno runs and I'll post the results.
#126 that contains "If you have any questions/concerns about the manufacturer, the company, or specifics about the product itself, please address them to the manufacturer." This was reemphasized in #133.
You seem to know the manufacturer, so why haven't you contacted them, and reported your conversation? Your constant baiting and hyperbolic statements are not only unbecoming, but inappropriate as well. Again, If you have any questions/concerns about the manufacturer, the company, or specifics about the product(s) itself, please address them to the manufacturer.
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4th Gear
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From: Southern California
Originally Posted by Dr Obnxs
If all the posts promising dates had said " this is how far we got, and we don't know when we'll be able to post more" most of the critism wouldn't have happened. Matt
In retrospect, I probably should not have mentioned the Gintani system at all, but should have waited for the actual product release before posting any information. However, I did want to share my enthusiasm for what seemed to be some very interesting developments in the Mini aftermarket world. Your statement quoted above is most appropriate --- thanks
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From: Denver
Give it another month or so, pricing and full data will follow...
With the final version proving out in Vegas, and another test at Sebring this weekend, I think we'll have all the data we need.
Randy
With the final version proving out in Vegas, and another test at Sebring this weekend, I think we'll have all the data we need.
Randy
My little dose of LITHIUM
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From: Albuquerque New Mexico
At the LV race track Randy Webb looked like he had a Nascar team working for him. At one point there were 6 Gintani people working on his car! Randy seems happy with the unit, and would certainly like to sell it to us as a retail unit, installed or not. The development suggests to me that there's still some time before we can put it on our cars, but the wait might just be worth it.
(Mind you, I put some 100 octane Rebel fuel in my car while in LV, and it seemed to have about as much effect as a new much smaller pulley! But it might be saying more about the generally crappy nature of 91 octane fuel than anything else.)
btw, 3 cars were running Gintani ICs at Phil Wicks, but Randy's was the most obvious, and the one that won the race.
cheers, phil
(Mind you, I put some 100 octane Rebel fuel in my car while in LV, and it seemed to have about as much effect as a new much smaller pulley! But it might be saying more about the generally crappy nature of 91 octane fuel than anything else.)
btw, 3 cars were running Gintani ICs at Phil Wicks, but Randy's was the most obvious, and the one that won the race.
cheers, phil
Great news Randy!
Originally Posted by RandyBMC
Give it another month or so, pricing and full data will follow...
With the final version proving out in Vegas, and another test at Sebring this weekend, I think we'll have all the data we need.
Randy
With the final version proving out in Vegas, and another test at Sebring this weekend, I think we'll have all the data we need.
Randy
Matt
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4th Gear
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From: Southern California
Originally Posted by RandyBMC
Give it another month or so, pricing and full data will follow...
With the final version proving out in Vegas, and another test at Sebring this weekend, I think we'll have all the data we need.
Randy
With the final version proving out in Vegas, and another test at Sebring this weekend, I think we'll have all the data we need.
Randy
Will you be using the new 3" header from Gintani, or will you keep your current setup? While their 2.5" header on my car is quite impressive, I'd expect the 3" unit to be awesome. When you post your results, I'll add the data for my car equipped with the air-charge intake manifold, the 2.5" header and the ECU tune.
Cheers,
5th Gear
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From: Naw-folk, VA
I clearly need to sell more loans to cover the cost of all the sweet new parts coming available. WMS Exhaust... Gintani IC... (or the new M7 maybe)... Unichip... 3" headers?? Man, good thing comes to those that wait (and save $$ 
)
)
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Hampton, VA
Originally Posted by F15EWeapon
I clearly need to sell more loans to cover the cost of all the sweet new parts coming available. WMS Exhaust... Gintani IC... (or the new M7 maybe)... Unichip... 3" headers?? Man, good thing comes to those that wait (and save $$ )
)Is that header going to have a cat?
Johan is wanting to do some dyno time so maybe we can do a small tech day when your system is in.
I'll bring my video camera this time.
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4th Gear
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From: Southern California
Originally Posted by F15EWeapon
I clearly need to sell more loans to cover the cost of all the sweet new parts coming available. WMS Exhaust... Gintani IC... (or the new M7 maybe)... Unichip... 3" headers?? Man, good thing comes to those that wait (and save $$ )
)Cheers,
air-charge intake manifold
I don't understand the vocabulary. Strictly speaking, any port fuel injection intake manifold is an "air-charge intake manifold". I think a better description would be an intake manifold with integrated water-to-air intercooler. Other cars have used the same concept (I think Mercedes does on some of the cars with Roots blowers). The idea being that one lessens the intake pathlength and volume, improving throttle response.
Matt
Matt
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4th Gear
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From: Southern California
Originally Posted by Dr Obnxs
I don't understand the vocabulary. Strictly speaking, any port fuel injection intake manifold is an "air-charge intake manifold". I think a better description would be an intake manifold with integrated water-to-air intercooler. Other cars have used the same concept (I think Mercedes does on some of the cars with Roots blowers). The idea being that one lessens the intake pathlength and volume, improving throttle response.
Matt
Matt
. Thanks for pointing out what should have been obvious to me.... There's a nice description of the system on the Gintani website: http://www.gintani.com/catalog.htm
Cheers,
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4th Gear
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From: Southern California
Originally Posted by obehave
I know of at least one that is being delivered or already has been so the product is alive.
Can't wait to see it
Hint hint
Can't wait to see it
Hint hinthttps://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=75280
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Hampton, VA
Originally Posted by RECOOP
There are about a half dozen cars that have the Gintani system, so "it is indeed still alive". Gintani MiniWorks is having a dyno day this Sunday at their Van Nuys, CA facility, and cars with the system will be there, including mine. Here is a reference to the event:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=75280
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=75280
Haven't seen a change in like a year
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,196
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From: Hampton, VA
Originally Posted by saifa
I think Randy at WMS is running that system along with the twincharger...sounds nifty!!
Seann
Seann
Last I spoke to him about it he seemed pleased with it's performance and operation. He's done, probably, more track miles with this than anybody.
So if he thinks well of it then that's a big plus in my book.
But does he think well enough of it to sell it?
I've wondered why it hasn't come up on the Webb web site or been offered for sale a bit more aggressively. The design concept is sound.
Went to Gintanis web site, and there's no price, and the dealer page is "about to be updated" with a request to e-mail them for details.
Here's a though... mate it with the M62!
Sorry, couldn't help myself...
Matt
Went to Gintanis web site, and there's no price, and the dealer page is "about to be updated" with a request to e-mail them for details.
Here's a though... mate it with the M62!
Sorry, couldn't help myself...
Matt
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,196
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From: Hampton, VA
Originally Posted by Dr Obnxs
I've wondered why it hasn't come up on the Webb web site or been offered for sale a bit more aggressively. The design concept is sound.
Went to Gintanis web site, and there's no price, and the dealer page is "about to be updated" with a request to e-mail them for details.
Here's a though... mate it with the M62!
Sorry, couldn't help myself...
Matt
Went to Gintanis web site, and there's no price, and the dealer page is "about to be updated" with a request to e-mail them for details.
Here's a though... mate it with the M62!
Sorry, couldn't help myself...
Matt
Last I knew it was an availability issue. Can't sell what you can't get a timely supply of.
As noted, if the manufacturer doesn't even have sales info posted how can a supplier?
The outdated site was mentioned earlier. For better or worse web presence is a major factor in todays retail world.
I've found this an interesting device since it was first mentioned, I can't remember how long ago.
I thought it might have gone the way of the Dodo, the ultrasonic carburetor, the ......
Mated with the M62 sounds cool
Then again $5K for the combo could give one pause
Originally Posted by TonyB
My concern with water intercooled system was not so much how it would peform over a few seconds on a dyno, but when really taxed over much longer durations of time during driving, namely on a track or spirited canyon run.
The dyno'ing of a top-mount IC, with hood open, doesn't allow for a true evalution of its merits because the scoop nor its diverter are being put to the test - driving ambient air through its fins.
I have not seen this system up close, but from what I recall of it (photos), and other water-to-air units, the hood being open is much less of an issue, and would not impair it's ability to cool the charged air on a dyno, like the top-mounts...
Between this, and the virtues of water, prior to being heated under extended-use conditions, I am not surprised that these units shine on the dyno. I just think dynos really suck for some things, and this pretty much tops the list.
In my book, it would need to seriously outperform the most effective top-mounts at 2-3x their price, not to mention associated install costs due to the complexity. The added weight, to the nose of the car, is also a penalty that the dyno will not account for, but very real. A couple gallons of water will have some benefits over 1 gallon, but at 16 or so pounds, that's not one of them. The weight to HP ratio is really the bottom-line here. And while cooling is important, I'm always a little concerned about stacking yet another heat exchanger infront of the radiator, hampering its ability to cool. This is from what I've seen in other water set-ups, and quite possibly the Gintani doesn't position their exchanger forward the radiator, but I don't know.
For the racers who are allowed any option for intercooling, their choice will reveal much, I feel; and time will tell in that regard. Decreased lap times are the ticket, and more importantly not lap one or two, but laps 10, 12 and 20, etc. Data-logging, not just time, under such conditions, will characterize the benefits in the best, most meaningful way...
The dyno'ing of a top-mount IC, with hood open, doesn't allow for a true evalution of its merits because the scoop nor its diverter are being put to the test - driving ambient air through its fins.
I have not seen this system up close, but from what I recall of it (photos), and other water-to-air units, the hood being open is much less of an issue, and would not impair it's ability to cool the charged air on a dyno, like the top-mounts...
Between this, and the virtues of water, prior to being heated under extended-use conditions, I am not surprised that these units shine on the dyno. I just think dynos really suck for some things, and this pretty much tops the list.
In my book, it would need to seriously outperform the most effective top-mounts at 2-3x their price, not to mention associated install costs due to the complexity. The added weight, to the nose of the car, is also a penalty that the dyno will not account for, but very real. A couple gallons of water will have some benefits over 1 gallon, but at 16 or so pounds, that's not one of them. The weight to HP ratio is really the bottom-line here. And while cooling is important, I'm always a little concerned about stacking yet another heat exchanger infront of the radiator, hampering its ability to cool. This is from what I've seen in other water set-ups, and quite possibly the Gintani doesn't position their exchanger forward the radiator, but I don't know.
For the racers who are allowed any option for intercooling, their choice will reveal much, I feel; and time will tell in that regard. Decreased lap times are the ticket, and more importantly not lap one or two, but laps 10, 12 and 20, etc. Data-logging, not just time, under such conditions, will characterize the benefits in the best, most meaningful way...
I agree "it would need to seriously outperform the most effective top-mounts at 2-3x their price" You can almost buy 2 m7 DFIC for one of these units.
I can't wait to see some of these units get out there!
If someone feels motivated you can upload these pics of the Gintani Aftercooler / Intake Manifold -- Johan