there is a new header on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...906874749&rd=1Do you think it will give any performance gains and its affordable for $260 but is it good quality.
tell me what you guys think and if you have one , how is the performance?

 

timmymini,

Aloha and welcome to NAM.

While this is a cheap price for a "racing header" there are some considerations about this type of header.

It has no cat converter so it is not street legal, only for track use.
No independent dyno testing has shown MINI exhaust headers "with no cat" to provide for any measureable gains in power or torque.
Often a header with no cat is going to provide for more exhaust loudness- sometimes alot more noise especially with an aftermarket cat-back exhaust.

This would not be my first choice for a $260 mod for any MINI.
A rear swaybar is about the same price and a much better mod.

 

It look's like a London SS knock off. The price is great and it can be modded to add a CAT. It's a crap shoot gamble as to guality unless a NAM member lives near there and would run over and have a look at it.
BUT, minihune is right.

 

Funny you say that! I'm actually thinking of swinging by the place today to check this out. Hopefully the people over there are nice but alot of time down here in Miami they're just punks so i can't promise i will actually see anything.

Any questions you guys want me to ask them before i leave in the next hour or more?

 

Hmmm .... What gauge is the steel? Is at all 300-series stainless? What type of flex joint does it have?

 

Will do Andy, anybody else? Leaving in 30 min.

 

As promised, i passed by Intense Performance yesterday down here in Miami and got a better look at the header.

Well i didn't want to have to do this but if none of the links below work then just you this one to go to my album. The pics of the header are at the end of the album: http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288480791




















Now to some of the details, this is an HPRacing header (www.HPRacing.com) that is currently being used on their Cooper project car http://www.hpracing.com/sponsor-gallery02.html. I was told it will fit the Cooper and the S but you guys would be able to tell me if the Manifolds are both the same.

Andy,

To your questions, they weren't sure of the gauge but guessed probably 14 from looking at it. As far as they know its T-304 Stainless all the way around and he didn't know exactly what "type" of joint it is but i took a close up so you can see for yourself. Also we took some quick messurements and its 2.25 piping going to the exhuast.

Now i spoke to them about a possible group buy and they are willing to give a discount depending on how many people are interested. If you guys want to do a group buy then please reply to this thread and once we have a good group going i'll e-mail them and see how much more of a discount we can get.

Luckily they aren't the normal Miami tuner shop punks and very nice kool to talk to people. They say they've sold 8 of these units in the past few weeks with no problems or people calling back with feedback.

Looks like this would compliment a nice catback exhuast system pretty well and probably add one mean *** exhuast note hehe.

P.S. I apologize about having to link to the pictures instead of displaying them but imagestation is going through some changes and having problem with linking.

 

Thanks for getting all those questions answered. Imagestation doesn't seem to like image linking. Would you mind posting the URL for the directory? Thanks.

 

I'll pass on this one and spend the extra $$ on the Jackson racing/Jardine header with "no cat" I'm thinking its the best quality one out there despite a $599 price tag. Anyone else have this header? and does anyone know if a "No Cat" header will cause the check engine light to come on, even if there are bungs in the header for the 02 sensors?

 

They said out of the ones they've sold they have yet have a person get a check engine light or the one currently on their project car. I think he said they didn't need O2 cheaters but i would still use a cheater myself.

I'm not the best welding or exhuast expert but the HPracing unit looked and felt pretty damn good, how much better could any of these other UBER headers costing 3-5 times more be?

 

Thanks for the research. So did they say where or who makes up these headers for them. It didn't sound like they did it in house.
Off Topic; They sure butchered that Cooper, what a pain in the butt it must be to work on it with the Bonnet tilting forward...ug

 

Intense is only a performance shop from what i saw, they don't actually make the units. HPRacing supposed has the units made, though i am not sure where they are made.

Other than being a racing unit because of the elimination of the cat what would be the difference anybody see's from other units offered for 4 times the price?

 

As I said, "It look's like a London SS knock off. The price is great and it can be modded to add a CAT." this is the ball park for what headers should cost once the jig is made.

Bargain, if you are at the point of needing a header.

 

No matter what the price, be aware-

Headers with no cat for the MINI have not shown to provide any measureable power gains in HP or torque.

Where is the independent dyno that shows that this header makes power?

No cat headers have had trouble with the O2 sensor tripping so the cheater might be needed- see Outmotoring.com

Some owners may find initially that things are OK but later the O2 sensor has problems- just be careful.

Sure it can make the exhaust louder but that doesn't mean anything in terms of performance. You cannot access a header by looks.

Exhaust headers are the same for MC or MCS- they will fit either.
I would not recommend this product for any MINI owner unless I see the dyno results
that show positive gains.

 

I think you're being a bit harsh, Hune. I haven't seen any other dyno's for other headers on the market, and most are upwards or over the $1-grand mark! Last time I talked to Randy Webb, he stated these pricey headers add only a handful of horsepower on well-modded MCS's. Under $300, even for tailoring the vehicles "voice", is much less expensive than a $900 Milltek header, even if HP or torque isn't the primary concern. Furthermore, the low cost most likely will help get the product out in consumer-land, meaning it's more likely to show up on a before/after dyno plot.

This header, despite not being "street legal", looks to be of good quality. The welds look nice and the tubing is cleanly mandrel bent. It would be cheaper to buy this header and have someone cut/weld-in a race-cat, than spend the big dough on the competition.

 

Hell if i could even find a respectable Dynojet down here in Miami i would probably buy it just for testing. But since i've been to two or three down here and yet to find anyone of them i would go back to we're kinda out of luck.

So far my MCS is completely stock so it would be a decent tester. Would also be interesting to see how it would sound on a stock exhuast or a modified exhuast.

 

Sorry, not trying to be "harsh" but rather realistic. $900+ for a header with race cat that delivers a "little" HP and torque IS pricey and certainly would be a better buy in the $500-$600 range but it isn't. Instead, in that same price range of $600+ we get many race headers with no cat that offer good looks with no documented gains on dyno.

Low cost is good but to me loud noise is not a good thing unless that is what you really want. This header does "look good" but where it sits under the MINI isn't the place I want to pay for good looks.

If someone wants to use this header and mod it with adding a race cat then that could be good and might be less expensive than other options. This is just all a sorry state of affairs for the MINI header market. It boils down to high prices and not as much product offered than what we would like.

So someone please do post some dyno numbers on what they got out of this header before and after the mod. Thanks.

 

If memory serves me correctly, MINI of Hawaii built a MCS with a header, no O2 sensor and no cat for a demo model. As far as I remember, the car did not throw any CELs.

Now, regarding headers, the MCS comes from the factory with a stock header. If you compare this to the Miltek header, they are almost identical in design. Pretty much the only difference is the increase in tubing diameter to scavenge exhaust gasses better. I do recall that the stock header had marks where you could see it did not match the exhaust ports on the cylinder head and thought you might be able to improve efficiency by port matching.

All in all, the stock header is very efficient and an aftermarket header may only produce gains of a couple hp, MAYBE. So why do it? Your MCS sure sounds great with that exhaust note and that tinny sound of the exhaust gasses being scavenged. It also looks great in the engine compartment. This is the same reason why some people put strut bars in their cars. A hinged bar actually defeats the purpose of reducing chassis flex, but it sure looks good in the engine compartment!

 

If that HPR header was posted anywhere else but ebay, I think they would charge the 2-3 times price as with comparable headers. We're a cornered market in that we are generally less concerned with (or aware of) price gouging, especially since the aftermarket is still "new." When only a handful of companies make a small select few parts for our aftermarket, is easy to keep prices high. A $200 header doesn't nesscessary mean its of lesser quality and has lower gains than a $600 header.

Tangent:
In the diamond industry, there is a monthly market report called "Rapaport." Rapaport's pricing is actually around 30% higher than retail (not cost, retail). Retail is usually keystone cost (3x cost). Two jewelers have exact quality certified diamonds (probably the same diamond if they share brokers); one for $3000, the other for $1000. Which is better?

 

Without getting into tuning the length of the primaries to a specific power band, as I recall, there are essentially 2 design types for headers: 4-into-1 and 2-into-4-into-1. One system is peaky in that it produces its power in the upper RPM range, the other makes its power down lower in the mid-range.

Can anyone confirm that the 4-1 design is best for mid-range torque/power, while the 4-2-1 design is an all out, high-rpm design? I think that's what I remember from my bike tuner days?

 

The other problem is that there is no flex pipe. That will put strain on the whole exhaust system from engine movement, as well as cause rattles and such.

 

The pictures I saw in the eBay link above have a flex pipe -

 

MY mistake, didn't see that on the small picture.. see it on the enlaged. sorry for the mistake

 

Hi thamez, I have one on my cooper s 2003 and I live in coral springs, florida this is on the north west of broward county about 35 miles north of miami. If you want to contact me and meet with me I will give a ride on the car so you can hear it.

I have a 15% pulley,magnaflow exhaust,alta intake and HPR Headers.
The car, personally with my but dyno says that has better take off. It's a little more louder but not anoying and also more responsive.

I have it for 15 days the only problem I found is that the engine light comes on and off and I am thinking of buying the O2 simulator.

Over all I am very pleased with this Header, if anybody is interested I can get this Header for a lower price than advertize in e-bay.

I plan to dyno my car to see if any gains show I have a baseline done about a 8 month ago with my previous mods.

If anybody interested please PM


Carlos in Coral Springs, Florida

 

Hey Carlos!

You have an incoming PM!