Aquamist HFS Methanol Injection Systems - Page 23 - North American Motoring


Drivetrain (Cooper S) MINI Cooper S (R56) intakes, exhausts, pulleys, headers, throttle bodies, and any other modifications to the Cooper S drivetrain.

Aquamist HFS Methanol Injection Systems

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  #551  
Old 10-12-2017, 07:06 PM
thebombardier thebombardier is offline
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Detonation occurs after the ignition event, pre-ignition occurs before. So in a pre-ignition event the flame front strikes the piston on it way up during the compression stroke. This places far more stress on the pistons and will destroy an engine in short order compared to detonation. During detonation torque falls off. During pre-ignition torque disappears and the engine feels like its bucking or stuttering. Needless to say if you run into it you need to address it immediately.
Okay just making sure. I have a vibration in 3rd and 4th gear (that I'm pretty sure is flywheel vibration or a motor mount) and I'm just ruling out possibilities. Sounds more like a catastrophic failure than a minor inconvenience.
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  #552  
Old 10-27-2017, 02:34 PM
Tigger2011 Tigger2011 is offline
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Got around to putting Vlad back on the dyno with 5% water, 10% acetone and 85% meth. His previous best on the dyno was 291 horse and 281 torque in forth gear. Vlad would spin the tires on the dyno in third. On the first run today torque was down 50 ft.lbs and I was like what the hell. On the second run we figured out that Vlad was now slipping on the rollers in forth gear. Luckily, the shop had some sticky spray they applied to the tires and we tried it one last time. With some traction Vlad managed 295 ft.lbs on the next pull. The extra 14 ft.lbs came in the midrange. Top end numbers stayed the same which isn’t to surprising. I think I’ve reached the point where the stock head and cams are choking the engine up top. So it looks like my butt dyno was right
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  #553  
Old 10-27-2017, 06:05 PM
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Got around to putting Vlad back on the dyno with 5% water, 10% acetone and 85% meth. His previous best on the dyno was 291 horse and 281 torque in forth gear. Vlad would spin the tires on the dyno in third. On the first run today torque was down 50 ft.lbs and I was like what the hell. On the second run we figured out that Vlad was now slipping on the rollers in forth gear. Luckily, the shop had some sticky spray they applied to the tires and we tried it one last time. With some traction Vlad managed 295 ft.lbs on the next pull. The extra 14 ft.lbs came in the midrange. Top end numbers stayed the same which isn’t to surprising. I think I’ve reached the point where the stock head and cams are choking the engine up top. So it looks like my butt dyno was right
woha w w w w w w wait...!!!

Before I just go and try this myself.... any graphs? any special consideration before puting in acetone?
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  #554  
Old 10-28-2017, 08:22 PM
Tigger2011 Tigger2011 is offline
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I haven't tried concentrations higher than 10% yet so unless you have a separate knock sensor I don't recommend it. No mechanical or tuning changes on these graphs. Same dyno and the ambient temps for the recent run was only two degrees higher. With the wheel spin the dyno operator was rolling on the throttle a little more slowly. Another thing to note is the slight change in AFR. Previous the AFR was 11.05 on the top end, with acetone added to the mix the AFR leaned out to 11.49. As far as mixing goes calculating acetone concentrations is very easy. Unlike water with a specific gravity of 1.0, it has a specific gravity of .787 v.s. methanol at .789.

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  #555  
Old 10-31-2017, 11:26 AM
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I haven't tried concentrations higher than 10% yet so unless you have a separate knock sensor I don't recommend it. No mechanical or tuning changes on these graphs. Same dyno and the ambient temps for the recent run was only two degrees higher. With the wheel spin the dyno operator was rolling on the throttle a little more slowly. Another thing to note is the slight change in AFR. Previous the AFR was 11.05 on the top end, with acetone added to the mix the AFR leaned out to 11.49. As far as mixing goes calculating acetone concentrations is very easy. Unlike water with a specific gravity of 1.0, it has a specific gravity of .787 v.s. methanol at .789.


I have mixed feelings with this graph. Yes, torque goes up, but later on.
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  #556  
Old 10-31-2017, 01:49 PM
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Cant say I blame ya. Difficult to compare my torque graphs to smaller turbos as mine spoils a little faster than a Garrett but is still a big honking turbo with 51x66mm compressor wheel. If anyone else feels like going to the trouble to produce some data for the community that would be great. If no one steps up I could reinstall the JCW turbo and step back down to the Stage 2 meth tune. But honestly that would be a PIA.
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  #557  
Old 10-31-2017, 04:27 PM
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This will demonstrate better than a description I think. Old Vlad vs New, Stage 2 meth JCW vs Stage 3 meth X51 all else being equal. Below 3700 RPM New Vlad lags behind Old Vlad in first gear. After that it's a different ballgame. I think I need to find a local dyno with newer rollers that aren't as worn, then we might have some better data.

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  #558  
Old 10-31-2017, 09:58 PM
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Interesting. You have to decide one of the options. Cant have quick spool and big numbers.
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  #559  
Old 11-10-2017, 07:52 AM
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This will demonstrate better than a description I think. Old Vlad vs New, Stage 2 meth JCW vs Stage 3 meth X51 all else being equal. Below 3700 RPM New Vlad lags behind Old Vlad in first gear. After that it's a different ballgame. I think I need to find a local dyno with newer rollers that aren't as worn, then we might have some better data.

i took the newly cam'd yukon to fitzgibbon performance in coconut creek, place is ****** built out nice. they've got a superflow, load bearing rolling (needed awd for yukon) dyno. they will probably end up tuning so my runs were for a baseline. but i think they do just 2x dyno runs @$50 every couple weeks. will prob drop by with mini if I ever get it back together and we ever get it tuned
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  #560  
Old 11-10-2017, 09:24 AM
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Thanks for the tip randeez
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  #561  
Old 12-03-2017, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigger2011 View Post
This will demonstrate better than a description I think. Old Vlad vs New, Stage 2 meth JCW vs Stage 3 meth X51 all else being equal. Below 3700 RPM New Vlad lags behind Old Vlad in first gear. After that it's a different ballgame. I think I need to find a local dyno with newer rollers that aren't as worn, then we might have some better data.

Putting the extra power to one side (difficult I know)

Is the more progressive curve giving you a Nicer drive,
compared to the typical flat top turbo torque of everything available from go

Odd subjective question, but if you don't get to use the higher rpm often on the street is the gain up top worth the loss low down ?

Or was it too much to begin with, so no real trade off to consider
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  #562  
Old 12-03-2017, 06:42 PM
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Actually IŹ like this power curve much better. Traction was a problem with the JCW turbo and meth tune, even with the LSD. It does a much better job of staying hooked up now.

The only time its slower now is first gear to 3700 rpm. At that point they're both making 250ish ft.lbs of torque. With the new turbo I don't drop back down to that level till 6000 rpm.

The curve also highlights the flow limits of the stock head without help. If you've ever have one of these apart it's amazing just how choked the ports are on the short side radius.
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  #563  
Old 12-06-2017, 10:25 AM
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qq - any 3" in your exhaust system.. or all 2.5 still?

*intercooler coming soon for my JCW, I would like to stg2 and meth after the install; just not sure about which DP I should go with and/or if larger pipe back is really needed on the stock snail or not.
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  #564  
Old 12-06-2017, 01:10 PM
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qq - any 3" in your exhaust system.. or all 2.5 still?

*intercooler coming soon for my JCW, I would like to stg2 and meth after the install; just not sure about which DP I should go with and/or if larger pipe back is really needed on the stock snail or not.
i be running a 2.5 down pipe with s 3” ddm works race exhaust ! Good tone very quiet at the low rpm’s ! Then in higher rpms sounds like a race car
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  #565  
Old 12-06-2017, 02:49 PM
thebombardier thebombardier is offline
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qq - any 3" in your exhaust system.. or all 2.5 still?

*intercooler coming soon for my JCW, I would like to stg2 and meth after the install; just not sure about which DP I should go with and/or if larger pipe back is really needed on the stock snail or not.
Bigger is always better with downpipes. But to my knowledge most commercially available downpipes are 2.5".
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  #566  
Old 12-06-2017, 07:21 PM
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Bigger is always better with downpipes. But to my knowledge most commercially available downpipes are 2.5".

I would agree with you if the turbo was bigger !
there’s been a couple different discussions on this topic !

i’ve personally talk to Mario & the guys at way motor works! When they ran both 3” an 2.5 on a dyno there was zero difference between the two ‘ other then the 3” was a bit louder !! An when I talk to Mario ‘ he was running a 47mm ‘

i think Cts turbo makes a 3” but I’ve heard a lot of mixed reviews on it And on top of that that 3 inch pipe was designed to run their GT 2028 much bigger turbo

I guess at this point it’s a little bit more of personal preference
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  #567  
Old 12-07-2017, 08:04 AM
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There is no reason to go to a larger downpipe unless you've ported the outlet of the exhaust turbine. The dimensions of the outlet are 2.5". It can be ported to approximately 2.7" IIRC before you reach the edge of the metal exhaust gasket. Going any further than that would not be a good idea and porting that side of it is not necessary or beneficial anyways.
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  #568  
Old 12-07-2017, 11:18 AM
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Ko4 planed so should I measure it up....?

Is it better to have big down pipe to std jcw exhaust

Or Go bigger all the way to exhaust tips,

or stay stock
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  #569  
Old 12-07-2017, 08:58 PM
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Ko4 planed so should I measure it up....?

Is it better to have big down pipe to std jcw exhaust

Or Go bigger all the way to exhaust tips,

or stay stock
Exactly what turbo’ are you thinking you’re going with ..

The Frankenstein k04 ?
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  #570  
Old 12-08-2017, 08:43 AM
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Ko4 planed so should I measure it up....?

Is it better to have big down pipe to std jcw exhaust

Or Go bigger all the way to exhaust tips,

or stay stock
K04 hybrid is a K03 housing with K04 wheel in it. I'd stick with a 2.5 DP. Then choose an exhaust to your liking.
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  #571  
Old 12-08-2017, 03:14 PM
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K04 hybrid is a K03 housing with K04 wheel in it. I'd stick with a 2.5 DP. Then choose an exhaust to your liking.
I would have to agree !!

Maybe go with a catless down pipe’
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