Everyone should start sending emails to Cobb telling them there is a demand for the tune. Tell everyone you know to send emails. The more interest we get, the more they will be motivated to get the product to the market.

 

How bout instead of worrying about the AP contact AC Shnitzer and ask how they tuned theirs.

 

Well, for me and others that I know of, the AP is more beneficial then a hard tune.

It's not an issue on whether it can be tuned, because the map for the n18 is already done, it's the ECU cracking and making of the AP that isn't being done because there is "no significant demand"

 

So what you are telling me is you want a tool that will give you ok results instead of a tune that will produce some serious power. I finally got to playing with my AP and have had OXSpeed send me a tune. I want more though, basically with different tunes for different things.

 

I come from the VW world, but know individuals with APs (both BMW and Subby crowd) and from what I know you can store/load multiple tunes onto the AP...So I might be misunderstanding what you're saying, but don't you have the ability to have "different tunes for different things" ????

I'm not saying a base tune from an AP is the best thing since sliced bread. I'm just saying that for a new car having the ability to switch between a tuned map and a stock map, seeing trouble codes, etc. may be beneficial if there's ever an issue that needed to be fixed that really has nothing to do with the modification yet the dealer does the whole "you have a radio in your car which caused the tire to go flat and the saleswomen to get pregnant, we won't cover that under your warranty"

 

So you're suggesting that people should use an AP, and if something happens to their car, they should attempt fraud, by putting back the stock tune and hoping the dealer doesn't notice? Great thinking.

F an AP! $900 for a really basic tune? Give me a tactrix cable and a laptop any day of the week. If they can ever get the ECU cracked.

 

No, that's not what I said at all, you should probably read the whole post buddy.

I said that its less hassle bringing your car to a dealer "stock" to get a simple repair done, then bring it with any engine modifications in which, from past experience, they try to say that X is the cause of your problem even though it's not even mildly related except for being in the car.

So calm your britches there and read the whole post before jumping to conclusions.

Maybe you've had great experiences with dealers, but I've had customers come in saying that the dealer would void their ENTIRE warranty if they put speakers in their car, or a radio, or a radar detector.....imagine if they had an issue and their car had a basic tune?

So I'll reiterate that the reason I stated the AP may be beneficial is the unneeded headaches at some dealerships that like to try to scare people out of touching their car and enjoying it the way they want to or screw people out of warranty work/covered damages/repairs because there is an aftermarket part on the car.

 

Yep, you said exactly what I thought you said. Returning it to "stock" when you bring it in for warranty work is fraud. Regardless of how you want to justify it, it's still fraud. If someone lets a dealer void their entire warranty because of a speaker upgrade, they are ignorant of their own rights, and frankly, if that happens, it's their own darn fault.

 

The problem is that there are very few people willing to wrok with the AP. OXspeed and Alta are the only ones I know that are willing to work with it. Until more people are willing to start selling tunes and indivduals learn how to tune the AP is kind of a waste. I have used my like 2 or 3 times and mostly that has been working with OXspeed. Which they sold me a way better tune then Altas stage 3. Little to no boost cuts. I need to dyno it again.

 

Agreed! It's because the AP delivers mediocrity with the highest pricetag possible.

 

Where'd you get your J.D. from? It is NOT fraud unless you are trying to get them to warranty something that broke relating to the tune. Yes you are "concealing" that your car has a tune, but you are not using that to try to get warranty work done (which makes it not fraud). Please don't make legal conclusions unless you are certain on what it actually is.

I am not saying that people DON'T do what you are thinking and breaking something and just returning it to stock and saying they don't know what happened. I am just saying that you can have an issue with your AC not working or your break lights not working, and dealerships try to blame ANY and EVERY thing that is aftermarket on the problem.

It's not the fact that they are ALLOWING them to do it, it's the fact that they are TELLING people that it will void their warranty. Now THAT is fraud, plain and simple, by the legal definition (concealing that they can modify their car without losing their warranty, and the individual relies on that information and acts according to the misinformation). The everyday public has no idea about the Magnuson-Moss act and believe that their dealer is going to tell them the truth every time.

I guess on the Mini side there isn't a lot of people using the AP (which I was not aware of, so thank you) which makes it value not that great. Until they have participation like w/ Subaru's and the BMWs it's not going to be that popular.

In other news, it appears GIAC is working on a tune (I forgot who they were working with) and they put out quality products for the VAG cars and Porsche. They've apparently already cracked the ECU, just finishing the fine tuning.

 

Believe it or not allot of dealers know and sanction big name tunes and ask for warranty purposes that you bring the car to the with a stock tune loaded when work is done. It makes it easier for them and for the customer. Its not fraud just like not paying taxes on the 50 bucks I got helping an old lady with her lawn is not tax evasion.

Dealer that void warranties for mealiness things that should have no affect on the car are the ones guilty legal. Its just difficult for a lay person to prove that to a multi-million dollar corporation.

 

AP vs. Everything else
Woah now here gents, lets cool things down a little bit and clarify a few things. There are a bunch of benefits towards the AP and non-AP options for tuning. The AP, for instance, has likely the easiest install process and offers additional features such as performance monitoring. This may mean that there is a trade off with the tune that is provided as it is intended to cover a wide variety of cars and car modifications.

On the flip side you can get a much more custom tune for non-AP options but it often involves knowing much more about your car and providing that information to the tuner. This process can take a longer period of time, cause more mistakes, and become very daunting for less tech-savvy people. The price comes down usually here because a company does not need to support a device, like the AP, but rather focus on the tunes themselves.

There will always be exceptions to these rules and this is what makes the market competitive in the end, meaning it is a good thing there are options. When looking for a tune you need to look for what works best for you. Does the AP pre-canned tunes work best for a track car? Probably not, but for a daily driver looking for just a little more umpf it may be all one needs. Same can be said for a 100% custom tune done on a dyno by a full range tuning shop. In the end it is all about #1, and #2 , meaning you and your car, not what some forum guy says is better.

Fraud?
As for accusations of fraud, sure, that is a possibility as with almost any warranty work after modifying a vehicle, and with anything in life. What you will likely find in the tuning community is that most people will revert back to the stock map, when going into the shop, in order to avoid any hassle with having to enforce their rights (read Magnuson-Moss Act) and not to receive any personal or financial gain. Does this mean that someone hasn't committed fraud by doing so? Of course not. Does this mean everyone that reverts back to stock commits fraud? No way. As was already said, many dealers now endorse tuners and often ask for owners to revert to stock, for one reason or another, before coming in to get work done.

Constant Call on Cobb?
Hearing that the demand of the N18 tune not being high enough for Cobb to support a tune is hard to believe to be honest but makes sense for now. In March 2012, BMW said that nearly 6,000 (JCW not included?)(http://www.countrymanmotoring.com/20...arch-2012.html) N18 based MINIs were sold, likely less than a quarter of which care about having a tune. That is less than likely 1,000 cars. From a company which caters to platforms much more used worldwide, 1,000 cars or even 3,000 cars is a small portion of business. Sure, calling them will let them know there is a big interest but it could also backfire in some ways. I am sure they are working on something in some way for us N18s but things take time in the corporate world, given the chance of a platform switch with MINI again in the near future, it does not seem like we should be holding our breath for Cobb.

TL;DR
1. Cool off people, be nice. Expression opinions here, not enforce them.
2. Choose the tune option right for you when you are ready.
3. Not everyone is out to commit fraud.
4. Let's not all freak out on Cobb via phone, I am sure they are trying, if not, there are other options that offer nearly the same solution.
5. I made a bathroom joke in there somewhere, read to find it.

All being said, don't express any anger towards one another in here. Seems too much like road rage and is hardly constructive here.

Motor on.

 

Got a response from Evolve on their tune, via Facebook.

"Only on the bench at the moment. No time frame for OBD tuning on this model."

Updating main thread now.

 

have you guys heard of TMC tuning box?

i've emailed them and they claimed that their piggyback box can "chip" / "tune" the 2012's encrypted ecu's. since they claim that they alter the boost levels and stuff rather than accessing the ecu?

here is the email convo

me: Hello, I am wondering if the TMC tuning box will work on a 2012 184BHP 1.6 Turbo Cooper S? would the ecu be locked for the box to work?

tmc: Hi ____, our box works on this engine even with locked ECU’s. Thanks

me: may i ask how is it possible? what factors does this TMC box alter?

tmc: Hi, it controls boost pressure externally so doesn’t need access to the ECU mapping.

here is the link to the product - http://www.tmcmotorsport.com/Mini_Engine.aspx

Mini Cooper S R56 1.6 Turbo 184bhp Tuning Kit Price: £299.00

I have heard great things from my audi friends in Hong Kong that uses this tuning box for their a4 / a5 / s4 / s5, but nothing on a r56 at all.

Any thoughts?

 

Just to let everyone know about the Fraud thing that is going around. I have an 07 that was affected by HPFP about 2 months ago. I have not ever hidden from the dealer that my car has a tune on it. When they tried to run the code for the pump they noted they could not find the code because the AP was blocking it. They asked me to install the stock tune so that they code run the code to be able to warranty it. No where in any of this that happened did I ever lie or try to decieve the dealership. the dealership made the call and it was taken care of. The only thing I disagreed with is the fact that the warranty does not reset on that part and that if it goes out again after the warranty is over oh well.

 

Not all dealers are this way, but really should be. You can always fight and non-related warranty coverage decisions but sometimes it is just easier to revert to stock before going in for work. Thanks for your take on it though.

 

Seems like it is half way to tuning but with some disadvantages to not having full advantage to the full ECU. Just upping the boost without adjusting other performance levels could yield bad wear and tear on an engine. Just my 2 cents but would like to find more evidence to support the product in the long term.

Thanks for the tip.

 

It doesn't just crank up the boost. It apparently, also alters the AFR's, and timing.

 

I like this. Let's keep it that way. I don't wanna have to do more clean up work. Thank you everyone.

 

Trying to help you out being a local guy. Don't think I have every seen you around though.

 

Does anyone know which one of these tuners will tune for a catless DP? I think NM said they couldnt.

 

I would assume anyone that is tuning outside of CA (or a state with CA emission laws) should be able to do so. NM being the only one to my knowledge that said they wouldn't/couldn't, others made no mention of it.

 

Here's the latest info on giac that I got.
Hello,

We do not support any of the Mini models after 2007. *Thank you for your interest in our software.

--
Best Regards,

Austin Wyly
Associate Sales and Marketing
www.GIACUSA.com

 

Thanks for the update! Bad news or not....