Drivetrain (Cooper S) MINI Cooper S (R56) intakes, exhausts, pulleys, headers, throttle bodies, and any other modifications to the Cooper S drivetrain.

PCV hose delete.

  #26  
Old 05-11-2011, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by czar View Post
although now I use my bespoke Aluminum inlet manifold!
pics please
 
  #27  
Old 05-11-2011, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by czar View Post
Although the caps are a relatively good idea, I personally would NOT recommend this idea on the track, as the crankcase pressures are far different from regular street driving!

for the track you want to evacuate crankcase pressure efficiently and quickly, and so I adapted a completely different method, I still capped off the inlet when using the stock inlet manifold, although now I use my bespoke Aluminum inlet manifold!
Ok cool. I was concerned about crank case pressure actually and is why I asked.

Typically for cars making more power and or hitting the track I like to vent both breathers to a catch can and vent that to the atmosphere. I actually like this method for the R56 in general since it should stop most of the carbon build up problem. The only down side is the chance for an off putting smell from the car that many don't care to deal with.
 
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Old 05-11-2011, 03:36 PM
czar
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Originally Posted by ThumperMCS View Post
pics please
I'm so tempted, however I have to protect my secrets to producing power, and so sadly I won't be releasing any images just yet, that said I have been spotted at various European tracks whilst testing my engines.

However I am willing to help all you guys in achieving your desired HP targets, I won't always give you the answer, as I think it's also best if sometimes I just offer guidance in the right direction, and get you to logically think for yourselves, it's really not that difficult!

The N14 engine is a very good engine, however it is going to cost lots of $$$ to produce reliable BIG hp.
 
  #29  
Old 05-11-2011, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] Division View Post
Ok cool. I was concerned about crank case pressure actually and is why I asked.

Typically for cars making more power and or hitting the track I like to vent both breathers to a catch can and vent that to the atmosphere. I actually like this method for the R56 in general since it should stop most of the carbon build up problem. The only down side is the chance for an off putting smell from the car that many don't care to deal with.
Do you sell a kit that vents both breathers to a catch can, vents to atmosphere, and includes necessary block off plugs?

I've been running a BSH catch can and block off for about 8,000 miles and while I don't have any problems I am concerned about crank case pressure.
 
  #30  
Old 05-12-2011, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Step View Post
damn someone beat me to it...

This guy is dead on. However removing the intake manifold line is really only half of the equation.

Now that the intake manifold line is blocked off, Instead of running vapors from your can to your intake boot, you can just run a vent off of your can. This way virtually all of the disgusting blow by is directed in to your can. Normally this wouldn't work because the air would have to be monitored and running a vent would induce a massive vacuum leak. buuuttt..... youve deleted the vacuum so its all gray. simply take your BSH port that is running to your intake boot and put a filter on it. (dont forget to block off the boot)

P.S. as an added bonus by deleting your intake pcv port you have a spare 12 heater or power souce available. you can use this to do all sorts of things. but ill save that for another topic
Ok really trying hard to understand this...can you go into more detail, or write out a picture diagram of how it should be done? I don't get how you can put a filter on the intake boot and yet block off the boot?

Correct me if im wrong this is how I understand it...so we block off the pcv on the manifold side and run pcv from the crank case (passenger) side to the cc as a venting solution, then run the other side (drivers side) of the crank case to the cc and block off the inlet tube to the turbo (where the crank case tube connects to the inlet tube)?

Lol I am totally lost...
 
  #31  
Old 05-12-2011, 07:16 AM
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The side with engine vacuum/pressure is the hose on right side of the car. If you delete it or install a BSH dual port tap, you will have eliminated any chance of a vacuum leak, if you were to install a vent. Old, pre 1968, cars had a "draft tube" that vented the crankcase. A draft tube extended down under the car, where the air passing over the end drew the crankcase fumes out of the engine.

The hose on the left side of the head cover goes to the turbocharger inlet, it will have a vacuum on it much of the time, there is no need to worry about over pressuring the crankcase, if you have that hose connected.
I have my oil catch can installed in that line, I have collected almost a pint of oil and water in the last four thousand miles, this is gunk that would have ended up in the intercooler without the oil catch can.

Dave
 
  #32  
Old 05-12-2011, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by DneprDave View Post
The side with engine vacuum/pressure is the hose on right side of the car. If you delete it or install a BSH dual port tap, you will have eliminated any chance of a vacuum leak, if you were to install a vent. Old, pre 1968, cars had a "draft tube" that vented the crankcase. A draft tube extended down under the car, where the air passing over the end drew the crankcase fumes out of the engine.

The hose on the left side of the head cover goes to the turbocharger inlet, it will have a vacuum on it much of the time, there is no need to worry about over pressuring the crankcase, if you have that hose connected.
I have my oil catch can installed in that line, I have collected almost a pint of oil and water in the last four thousand miles, this is gunk that would have ended up in the intercooler without the oil catch can.

Dave
The amount you have collected, is misleading! The water you mention, is from the condensing cooling oil mist vapour sweating within the can itself!

Here is what I collected from my stock intercooler after 22 thousand miles.

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This is just 39ml and with no oil catch can fitted, also notice the lack of any water residue!

Aluminum is very good at dissipating heat, mix this effect with hot oil mist residue, and hey presto condensing water droplets form!
 

Last edited by czar; 05-12-2011 at 07:48 AM.
  #33  
Old 05-12-2011, 08:17 AM
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I caught a bit more oil than you have.
16oz bottle.
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As I said, this was after about four thousand miles. None of this got into the intercooler, which is a good thing.

Dave
 
  #34  
Old 05-12-2011, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by DneprDave View Post
I caught a bit more oil than you have.
16oz bottle.


As I said, this was after about four thousand miles. None of this got into the intercooler, which is a good thing.

Dave
Take a close look at the amount of water, in comparison to the oil residue!

When you use any Aluminum oil catch can, all your essentially doing is passing your hot oil mist residue through a cooling condensing can, and this is where the hot oil mist residue cools to quickly and forms water droplets, and this quickly emulsifies with the tiny amount of actual oil caught, and quickly fills up with that nasty looking emulsified water oil mix, simple as that.
 
  #35  
Old 05-12-2011, 08:52 AM
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Exactly! That's the point of an oil catch can.

Dave
 
  #36  
Old 05-12-2011, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by DneprDave View Post
Exactly! That's the point of an oil catch can.

Dave
So you must also agree, that if you didn't have an oil catch can in the first place, then you wouldn't have any emulsified oil, like you do in your oil catch can, and so what you claim would have passed into your intercooler is NOT the case!

No can, no emulsified water droplet contaminated oil mist residue!

Apart from the obvious of stopping oil mist residue from entering a dry air (no fuel) intake in the case of all GDI/FSI engines, and building up excessive carbon on the intake valves, if you do want to use an oil catch can, then please don't be mislead, and think WOW look at all (amount) that emulsified crap, you've stopped/caught, cos in actual fact, by fitting the oil catch can in the first place, you have created 95% of that emulsified crap yourself!
 
  #37  
Old 05-12-2011, 09:17 AM
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I guess I just don't understand what you are trying to say. All that crud came out of the engine. I caught it in the oil catch can and it didn't get into the turbocharger and the intercooler or drawn into the engine where it could get baked onto the intake valves.

Are you trying to say that an oil catch can is unnecessary!? That doesn't make sense!

Dave
 
  #38  
Old 05-12-2011, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by DneprDave View Post
I guess I just don't understand what you are trying to say. All that crud came out of the engine. I caught it in the oil catch can and it didn't get into the turbocharger and the intercooler or drawn into the engine where it could get baked onto the intake valves.

Are you trying to say that an oil catch can is unnecessary!? That doesn't make sense!

Dave
All that crud did NOT come out of your engine, just a small amount of oil within that crud came out of your engine.

Ok think like this, cold bottle of beer, hot day, as the beer warms up, then water forms on the outside of the bottle yes ? Condensation (sweating) from two different acting temperatures!

Well this is exactly what happens inside your oil catch can, condensation sweating, from thermal exchange.

I'm not saying oil catch cans are unnecessary, just please be aware that 95% of what you catch/empty from your oil catch can, is NOT from your engine, it is condensation from thermal exchange, taking place within your oil catch can.
 
  #39  
Old 05-12-2011, 10:02 AM
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If all that stuff didn't come out of the engine, where did it come from? It's a closed system, from the engine to the turbo intake. The oil catch can is not open to the atmosphere, it couldn't have come from anywhere else!

Dave
 
  #40  
Old 05-12-2011, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by raindizzle View Post
Ok really trying hard to understand this...can you go into more detail, or write out a picture diagram of how it should be done? I don't get how you can put a filter on the intake boot and yet block off the boot?

Correct me if im wrong this is how I understand it...so we block off the pcv on the manifold side and run pcv from the crank case (passenger) side to the cc as a venting solution, then run the other side (drivers side) of the crank case to the cc and block off the inlet tube to the turbo (where the crank case tube connects to the inlet tube)?

Lol I am totally lost...
Sorry I hijacked this from an LS1 page but it gives an example of what I am talking about. The vent is key here, so don't try this with a normal un-vented catch can. It would have bad results.

This is the best way to keep oil from reentering your intake system. However the draw back is the vented gasses, which can smell. On street cars it's best to vent under the car using a long hose. This will eliminate most of the smell and prevent the cabin from being filled with a toxic gas.

Race cars get away with just a filter on top or vent hole because the cabin should be completely sealed from the engine bay and the cabin it self tends to be vented better.

Any case the vent needs to be set up to suit the vehicle it's on.

Originally Posted by DneprDave View Post
I guess I just don't understand what you are trying to say. All that crud came out of the engine. I caught it in the oil catch can and it didn't get into the turbocharger and the intercooler or drawn into the engine where it could get baked onto the intake valves.

Are you trying to say that an oil catch can is unnecessary!? That doesn't make sense!

Dave
What he is saying is that only a small fraction of what you collected is what actually gets caught in the intake on a normal set up. The majority of it is produced by the catch can and would not be produced by the engine with out the catch can.

So yes a catch can help collect a good amount of oil that the PCV system normally vents into the intake, but the catch can it self produces it's own by product and that is what 95% of what you drain out is.

Czar brought up aluminum a lot. I think that was a possible hint to try using a plastic catch can.The amount of water you collect should drop dramatically.
 
  #41  
Old 05-12-2011, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by barnoun View Post
Do you sell a kit that vents both breathers to a catch can, vents to atmosphere, and includes necessary block off plugs?

I've been running a BSH catch can and block off for about 8,000 miles and while I don't have any problems I am concerned about crank case pressure.
TBH the BSH set up works pretty good. It doesn't stop 100% of the oil that reenters the intake but it gets a good amount. The hose that the boost tap blocks off leads to the side of the intake manifold and gets reduced to a hole only 3-4mm in diameter. Most of the crank case pressure is vented through the hose going to your intake pipe. My only suggestion for them was to make use of the second vent to help the engine breath more for more extreme conditions like track use.
 
  #42  
Old 05-12-2011, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by DneprDave View Post
If all that stuff didn't come out of the engine, where did it come from? It's a closed system, from the engine to the turbo intake. The oil catch can is not open to the atmosphere, it couldn't have come from anywhere else!

Dave
Ok try this example instead, last time, so you and your partner are having a fun time in your car, doors and windows all closed (sealed compartment) just like the oil catch can, it's hot in your car and cool outside, what do you get forming on the windows inside your car ? condensation, yes ?

Right with that thought now in your mind, lets transfer that same thermal effect, between hot and cool temperature difference (condensation/sweating) to the HOT oil mist residue passing through your Aluminum oil catch can, HOT on the inside from the passing through HOT oil mist residue, and a cooler temperature on the outside of the oil catch can, the temperature difference is enough to create condensation to form on the inside of your Aluminum oil catch can, yes ? surely this time you get it!

And if that's not simple enough, somebody else help Dave please.
 
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Old 05-12-2011, 10:42 AM
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Can anyone explain this so that us lay minacs understand this? I just had the cleaning done and it cost me $650. HUUUUGGE difference from about 5500 and up, so yes this a problem for our engines. I was going to do the whole two catch can thing but if there is a better solution please share in laymens terms please, no abbreviations or jargon, THANKS!
 
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Old 05-12-2011, 11:03 AM
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Read throught the whole thing again and still
 
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Old 05-12-2011, 11:42 AM
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Yes, I understand that the oil catch can is cooler and that the oil and water vapor condenses on the inside of the catch can, heck, it's how a catch can is supposed to work! A plastic or insulated oil catch can wouldn't be a very good one. That oil and water vapor is still coming from the engine and no where else. That's the stuff I'm trying to keep out of my intake system by installing the oil catch can in the first place.

As you could see from the stuff I collected, about half of that is oil. That is what didn't get into my intercooler and coat the inside of it, reducing it's efficiency, it didn't get into the turbocharger and it didn't get into the engine.

Dave
 
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Old 05-12-2011, 11:57 AM
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Ok I totally understand now...so basically the bsh cc and boost tap work well for street driving since ventilation and pressure is relieved through the inlet tube to the turbo. But for track use, ventilation and pressure would be better relieved if instead of the bsh boost tap blocking the crank case it would be better to run a 3rd hose to the can like the picture mike has posted. (Catch can with 3 ports instead of 2) right.....
 
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Old 05-12-2011, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by DneprDave View Post
Yes, I understand that the oil catch can is cooler and that the oil and water vapor condenses on the inside of the catch can, heck, it's how a catch can is supposed to work! A plastic or insulated oil catch can wouldn't be a very good one. That oil and water vapor is still coming from the engine and no where else. That's the stuff I'm trying to keep out of my intake system by installing the oil catch can in the first place.

As you could see from the stuff I collected, about half of that is oil. That is what didn't get into my intercooler and coat the inside of it, reducing it's efficiency, it didn't get into the turbocharger and it didn't get into the engine.

Dave
Then given your logic Dave, my intercooler must be absolutely full to the brim with this emulsified oil mix.

As long as your happy with your understanding on this matter, then who am I to try to guide or convince you otherwise Dave.
 
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Old 05-12-2011, 05:27 PM
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Right back at you!
Your intercooler and intake system probably has more oil in it than you think.

Dave
 

Last edited by DneprDave; 05-12-2011 at 05:32 PM.
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Old 05-12-2011, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by raindizzle View Post
Ok I totally understand now...so basically the bsh cc and boost tap work well for street driving since ventilation and pressure is relieved through the inlet tube to the turbo. But for track use, ventilation and pressure would be better relieved if instead of the bsh boost tap blocking the crank case it would be better to run a 3rd hose to the can like the picture mike has posted. (Catch can with 3 ports instead of 2) right.....
Basically yeah, I think you got it.
 
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Old 05-12-2011, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by tedbone72P View Post
Read throught the whole thing again and still
The thing with that set up I posted is that the catch can does not vent back into any part of the intake system. It vents to the atmosphere. The temp sensor on the intake tube near the turbo that the breather normally runs though would need to be capped. This is the same with the the port on the side of the intake manifold. The 2 breather pipes on the valve cover would run to a catch can like the picture above. From the catch can a third line would vent the gasses to a section under the car or even through metal line into the exhaust.

For a street car you can get away with using just the breather line on the driver side and cap the passenger side like czar showed in the original post.

I have some pics floating around of a set up like this on an R53. I'll try to find it. Several companies make universal vented catch cans that can be used.
 

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