Drivetrain PCV hose delete.
#101
09-29-2011, 12:28 AM
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A coalescing filter is as you say the most effective way to separate any liquid, in this case oil, from the crankcase vapour, that said, I don't see you reasoning behind your statement.
Yes it's perfectly practical to produce a coalescing filtration system, for the automotive applications, as that's exactly what I did, I designed and produced my own coalescing filter, specifically for my N14 engines, and it filters out to 99.9% separation.
The probable reason most aftermarket companies don't produce a effective OCC other than supplying an empty can, maybe sometimes with a baffle plate in it too, is that they won't have the knowledge or understanding about oil/air separation, or calculated the necessary volume and flow taking into account the % rate of wear for compressional blow by, for any given engine, it's a science not guess work!
Yes it's perfectly practical to produce a coalescing filtration system, for the automotive applications, as that's exactly what I did, I designed and produced my own coalescing filter, specifically for my N14 engines, and it filters out to 99.9% separation.
The probable reason most aftermarket companies don't produce a effective OCC other than supplying an empty can, maybe sometimes with a baffle plate in it too, is that they won't have the knowledge or understanding about oil/air separation, or calculated the necessary volume and flow taking into account the % rate of wear for compressional blow by, for any given engine, it's a science not guess work!
I was just trying to help a little here in the understanding.
It has always been the easy way just dump the fumes/blow by back to the engine and burn it. It is a win -win for manufactures it shuts up the government and causes damage to engines so you end up with repair bills. Keep in mind that is not just oil there is a lot of carbon in there too.
Last edited by johnf36; 09-29-2011 at 12:37 AM. Reason: forgot something
#102
09-29-2011, 12:41 AM
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Your right in your assessment that not venting into the intake is the best route. The only reason it does is for emissions.
The pics I posted on page three are exactly what your talking about. The only reason it's to a vented can and not just the breather is to prevent an oily mess.
The pics I posted on page three are exactly what your talking about. The only reason it's to a vented can and not just the breather is to prevent an oily mess.
#103
09-29-2011, 01:55 AM
Interesting, maybe we should talk. I have be running my system for 5 years now on my W11 with good results.
I was just trying to help a little here in the understanding.
It has always been the easy way just dump the fumes/blow by back to the engine and burn it. It is a win -win for manufactures it shuts up the government and causes damage to engines so you end up with repair bills. Keep in mind that is not just oil there is a lot of carbon in there too.
I was just trying to help a little here in the understanding.
It has always been the easy way just dump the fumes/blow by back to the engine and burn it. It is a win -win for manufactures it shuts up the government and causes damage to engines so you end up with repair bills. Keep in mind that is not just oil there is a lot of carbon in there too.
#105
09-29-2011, 08:51 PM
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#106
09-29-2011, 10:14 PM
Former Vendor
It's the best option for the purposes stated, but keep in mind it's illegal and can be stinky. Neither are a big deal for most that go this route, but it is something to keep in mind when getting the car smoged.
#107
09-30-2011, 08:07 AM
#108
09-30-2011, 09:51 AM
Yep, I have had several of those vintage cars. Prior to that there was a breather in the valve cover just venting under the hood.
Stephen
Last edited by SMOG; 10-01-2011 at 04:45 AM.
#109
10-02-2011, 05:19 AM
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#110
11-24-2011, 12:36 PM
#111
12-14-2011, 04:34 AM
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#112
12-14-2011, 08:27 AM
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#113
12-14-2011, 08:31 AM
Hmm not such a good idea after all, why not simply get yourself a good OCC ?
#114
12-17-2011, 12:35 PM
3rd Gear
In theory yes, that said, would it be a good idea to allow oil deposits to be dumped onto the road surface, when your very tiny breather filters become saturated ? As once you run the lines under the car, out of sight out of mind!!
Hmm not such a good idea after all, why not simply get yourself a good OCC ?
Hmm not such a good idea after all, why not simply get yourself a good OCC ?
It is my understanding that one valve is open at die and the other is open un any amount of throttle. Also that if you remove the vacuum from the passenger side hose that it will no lover open as it is a one way valve. I know you said that you do not recommend capping off the passenger side if the car gets tracked. Any info on how the valves work or in which order?
#115
12-17-2011, 01:21 PM
3rd Gear
#116
12-30-2011, 12:30 AM
3rd Gear
Went ahead and did the PCV re-direct. Have been driving for about a week with no issues or CEL's from the disconnected sensor on the turbo inlet hose. I Sea Foamed the car prior to doing the re-direct until I can get in and hand clean. Car feels smoother and just all around healthier. I will report back with updates if anything new develops.
#118
12-31-2011, 01:07 PM
Coming from the BMW community, one of our members tried several catch cans and found that he had pressure in his valve cover as measured at the oil fill cap when the PCV was not connected properly or if the inline catch can was too restrictive. Believe it or not the slight vacuum in our turbo inlet pipes where our pcvs were directed to was enough to pull the unwanted vapor/fuel/water/etc out of the crankcase. Since his testing our available catch cans have concentrated on increased tube diameter and baffled cans with good flow rather than just dumping the vapor to atmosphere.
#119
01-02-2012, 02:43 AM
3rd Gear
#120
01-02-2012, 09:19 AM
I asked the shop foreman at my MINI dealer. There was a problem with water vapor, in the crankcase vapors, freezing right there where the PCV line attaches to the much colder air in the turbocharger inlet hose.
There is old thread here where the purpose of that device was being argued. I was at my dealer getting my free annual inspection and oil change and I asked about it.
Dave
There is old thread here where the purpose of that device was being argued. I was at my dealer getting my free annual inspection and oil change and I asked about it.
Dave
#121
01-03-2012, 04:35 AM
3rd Gear
Awesome. Thank you for the info Dave. How ever now I have a dilema. My hose is running under the car and there is no way the heater will reach to the bottom. Maybe that is for Extreme cold climates? Maybe it will cool enough by the time it reaches the bottom of the hose to not freeze? One way to find out I guess.
#123
01-09-2012, 05:22 AM
Ok try this example instead, last time, so you and your partner are having a fun time in your car, doors and windows all closed (sealed compartment) just like the oil catch can, it's hot in your car and cool outside, what do you get forming on the windows inside your car ? condensation, yes ?
Right with that thought now in your mind, lets transfer that same thermal effect, between hot and cool temperature difference (condensation/sweating) to the HOT oil mist residue passing through your Aluminum oil catch can, HOT on the inside from the passing through HOT oil mist residue, and a cooler temperature on the outside of the oil catch can, the temperature difference is enough to create condensation to form on the inside of your Aluminum oil catch can, yes ? surely this time you get it!
And if that's not simple enough, somebody else help Dave please.
Right with that thought now in your mind, lets transfer that same thermal effect, between hot and cool temperature difference (condensation/sweating) to the HOT oil mist residue passing through your Aluminum oil catch can, HOT on the inside from the passing through HOT oil mist residue, and a cooler temperature on the outside of the oil catch can, the temperature difference is enough to create condensation to form on the inside of your Aluminum oil catch can, yes ? surely this time you get it!
And if that's not simple enough, somebody else help Dave please.
#124
01-10-2012, 12:13 PM
Yes, I understand that the oil catch can is cooler and that the oil and water vapor condenses on the inside of the catch can, heck, it's how a catch can is supposed to work! A plastic or insulated oil catch can wouldn't be a very good one. That oil and water vapor is still coming from the engine and no where else. That's the stuff I'm trying to keep out of my intake system by installing the oil catch can in the first place.
As you could see from the stuff I collected, about half of that is oil. That is what didn't get into my intercooler and coat the inside of it, reducing it's efficiency, it didn't get into the turbocharger and it didn't get into the engine.
Dave
As you could see from the stuff I collected, about half of that is oil. That is what didn't get into my intercooler and coat the inside of it, reducing it's efficiency, it didn't get into the turbocharger and it didn't get into the engine.
Dave
What Czar is trying to say is the water is actually a by-product from the oil catch can. If you have a cold beer in the hot summer day outside, you must agree condensation forms on the outside of the bottle.. that condensation isn't coming from "water" through the glass bottle of course, its simply the air condensating and creating water droplets. You also agree theres air within your engine, right? And the vapor that blows by includes air? So water can form on a cold surface when a hot fluid (air is a fluid as well) and/or hot vapor gas passes through the cold surface.. the cold surface being the oil catch can. This is the same idea as to why condensation could form in your oil, because the engine has not warmed up to temperature before letting it cool back down.
So, if the oil catch can's cold surface is creating the condensation of water, then, if there were no catch can, there would be no chance for the condensation of water to occur, correct? (Aside from short drives). Based on your theory of the water coming from the engine, then many of us would have likely hydrolocked our cars by now, and have intercoolers filled with water.