Did you miss my last post or are we ignoring it completely? I have a problem with your claim of no carbon deposits on your intake valves, so you expect us to believe that your OCC is catching 100% percent of the oil vapor headed for your intake valves? You've got to be kidding me, no one on NAM has ever claimed that their OCC has caught 100% percent of oil vapors headed towards the intake. We have one result (SteelersFan) with coked oil covering the entire intake valves with pictures to proof it, then we have your claimed results with no pictures.

How can we have two completely opposite results one with no oil on intake valves and one with 100% percent carbon covering the entire valve and intake runners? Clearly there's something else going on here that doesn't make a bit sense! Forgive me if I choose to believe the member with pictures to prove his claim, I'm sure others will as well. no disrespect intended.

I'm aware of how the PCV functions, we claim to understand how the PCV system works yet nobody can explain why SteelersFan results are so opposite from mikeyb74?

 

No disrespect taken!

I didn't claim it was catching 100%. I was actually shocked that there was no carbon buildup when I scoped it. Sorry no photos. Didn't think I would need any. I even had my dealer inspect it for a second opinion and they told me that it's not an issue.

I've been wondering if it's driving style and maintenance related?

 

I figured since you said that there was "no carbon" on the intake valves at all that would equal no oil vapors coming into contact with the valves. For that to be true the OCC would have had to catch 100% of the oil vapors. Another thing, why would you need a second opinion from the dealer if you saw "no carbon" on your intake valves? It's this sentence right here that raises a red flag for anybody seeking the truth.

What you have stated not only makes zero sense and is a contradiction. Based on your account things aren't adding up here. The only thing adding up here are the accounts of SteelersFan. Now for all of the others that might find this thread seeking answers in regards to a OCC which post do you think will be the deciding factor? Might want to check your intercooler for oil.

 

The catch can doesn't have to catch 100%, any oil not caught by the catch can is then caught by the intercooler and the long run of piping between the turbocharger intake and the intake ports. The chances of any oil going that far is extremely small.

Maybe the build up of carbon shown on the valves happened before the dual boost port block off and catch can were installed. Oil could also get onto the valves, if it is leaking past the valve guides.

Dave

 

So if I'm to understand you you're saying it's better to catch the oil in the intake piping after the turbo inlet, intercooler and intake ports? Dear God, ! Why anyone would want oil in the intercooler, piping between the turbocharger intake and the intake ports is beyond my comprehension.

You stated, "Maybe the build up of carbon shown on the valves happened before (check quote below) the dual boost port block off and catch can were installed". If you're not going to bother reading the quoted posts and getting all the facts before replying it's pointless to continue, please stop skimming and read the entire quoted post because you're missing a big chunk of facts as is evident in you're replies.

"Please read the entire quoted post before making uninformed statements".

 

I read the post. I don't believe the oil could come from the intake system, unless the car has very bad rings, creating excessive crankcase pressure. What was the oil consumption of the car that had the build up? The OP doesn't give us a lot of background on his engine, just that he had carbon build up and oil in the charge plumbing post intercooler, after 40K miles. That wouldn't happen in a properly functioning engine.

The intercooler and associated piping are a lot easier to clean than mechanically removing carbon build up on the intake valves and it requires no special equipment.

Dave

 

Im not saying anybody is wrong or right here..All Im saying is that type of buildup is not normal, I wish I still had my car so I could post a picture on here by my valves were almost brand new looking and the car had around 56000 miles when I sold it. I think it depends on how you treat the car, regular oil changes, etc that could cause something like that. I don't know SteelerFan or how he drives but those look like he changed the oil one time and drove it like a maniac.

 

Hi guys. Thanks for for the discussion and additional questions regarding my experience.

To clarify and reiterate, I have a 2009 HT S with the N14 engine and automatic trans. I installed the BSH OCC and Boost Tap (plugged) at 10k miles. The dealer did a carbon cleaning at 50k miles. I didn't get before or after pictures from that visit so I am taking their word that the valves were coked. I can say that the hesitation issue I had was resolved. Fast forward about a year and a half and 35k miles later and I got what you see in the pictures I posted. And, of course, all 8 intake valves looked very similar to those pictures.

I change my oil and filter every 10k miles with the MINI brand oil and filter. My driving habits consist of mostly freeway driving at either 75 mph or bumper-to-bumper as I commute 100 miles a day into and out of Los Angeles. Otherwise I drive "spiritedly" on the streets during the 9 miles between my house and the freeway but I definitely don't drive like a "maniac". I don't autocross or even do many canyon runs (the last one was 2 years ago). In fact I don't normally drive my car on the weekends.

I can say that I do have hesitation again at lower RPMs even though I have started doing more regular seafoam treatments (every 1000 to 1500 miles). This is a bit disappointing and makes me consider getting rid of the car sooner rather than later. The car uses about .5 to 1 qt of oil every 1000 miles (deemed "normal" by MINI). I hope, I suppose, that all or most of that oil is getting sucked through the induction system and that the oil isn't getting past the piston rings. From the pictures it would seem at least most of it is not. I plan to take another look at my valves in the near future and will post those pictures as well.

To compare, my wife's Clubman S with the N18 and 41k miles pulls like a freight train and is quick with no hesitation. What a difference! (I know, it has more power she reminds me all the time!) I'm hopeful her car doesn't exhibit the build-up problems as she loves it and we plan to keep it for several more years.

 

What Mini calls normal I call a poorly designed PCV system, it should collect the oil vapors and return it to the oil pan. The N18 engines are much improved when it comes to oil consumption, proof that something isn't "normal" just because the manufacture says so!

 

It isn't the PCV system that causes excessive oil consumption, it's less than optimum ring sealing. Poorly sealing rings, besides allowing more oil to be burned in the cylinders directly, also allows more blow by, which a properly designed PCV system vents back into the engine's intake, preventing pressure from building up in the crankcase as it is designed to do. However, this larger volume of blow by gasses also carry along with it more of the oil mist that exists in the crankcase of every engine. It is this oil mist that burns on the backs of the intake valves, on direct injection engines, because it isn't being washed off the valves by unburned fuel as it is on port injected engines.

Just because all manufacturers set a quart per 1000 miles as the lower limit of acceptable oil consumption, doesn't mean that all engines burn that much oil.

I'm not surprised that Steelersfan's MINI builds up carbon in the intake ports as often as it does, if it it is burning a quart of oil per thousand miles, though that is in the "acceptable" range, as determined by the manufacturer, it is at the very high end of that range.

Many N-14 engines don't burn anywhere near as much oil, and so don't exhibit the same carbon build up problem.

It looks like an oil catch can has limits on how much oil it can catch, when the volume of oil mist in the crankcase blow by is high.

Dave

 

My carbon buildup wasn't the worst I've seen, mild in comparison to others. Steelersfan has it a lot worse than me, mine wasn't half as bad! Why do I burn more oil at stop and go traffic and burn very little on sustained 70 mph freeway trips? You would expect more blowby gasses on freeway trips because you're at a constant speed where as in traffic your blowby show be less at idle, yet I burn more when just sitting there. I had a leak down test and the results were great which means my rings are sealing as well for my valve seats. You're explanation contradicts unless there's something missing here.

 

Stop and go traffic would use more oil, as the average combustion pressures are continuously varying from high, when accelerating from a stop (lots of gas) to low, when slowing with your foot off the gas (very little gas). That would be similar to the conditions of a day at the track, when you are on and off the throttle and which we all know causes oil consumption to go up. Cruising on the freeway takes just a little bit of throttle to maintain your speed and so you would have a more consistent and much lower average combustion pressure in your cylinders.

Passing a leakdown test just says your engine is good withing a range. The numbers that would be of interest would be a leak down test comparison between two cars with the same engine, one that accumulated carbon quickly and one that doesn't.

Dave

 

I've gone thru 2 valve covers because of defective PCV systems. Both failed to relieve crankcase pressure at positive manifold pressure. This unrelieved crankcase pressure caused the turbo oil drain line (gravity fed) to not flow back into the crankcase. The oil went past the turbo oil seal into the turbo air inlet chamber, where it was mixed with the air, compressed, and then into the intercooler, etc.

Oil was "burned" but not in the usual sense, as in bad rings, or a full OCC. I've had a couple "lively" discussions on NAM on the subject, and found that not everyone accepts this failure mode. It may or may not apply to anyone's specific problem, but should at least be considered by all as a cause for "oil consumption / burning". I'm no longer pushing "driving habits" as a REASON for oil consumption, just an indication of when it will occur when a faulty PCV is in use.

 

You know what, you're correct. Before I replaced my valve cover I always noticed oil in my PCV hose leading to the turbo, after replacing my valve cover with the newer designed one I kept checking for oil droplets in the turbo inlets PCV line. To this day the PCV hose leading to the turbo inlet is dry with no hint of any oil droplets! My oil consumption rate dropped quite a bit.

 

I replaced my valve cover 9k miles ago at 84k and did not notice any change to oil consumption. I have the passenger side PCV hose blocked with the boost tap and I definitely have oil throughout the entire length of the air induction system, from drivers side PCV hose to intake manifold. The turbo oil feed line cause is interesting though and may be a secondary problem I'm having.

Ugh, this car is getting frustrating though I will try to keep if for another 18 months/35k miles.

 

I too have had the oil residue in the turbo inlet PCV. That as the primary reason for installing the BSH OCC. My valve cover is original from '07, so I'm sure thats whats contributing to my oil. I also have a consumption issue as well. About 1qt/1,000 miles, or more, depending on driving habits. Looks like I should be replacing that cover :-/

 

Let me be more specific --- the oil I was seeing at the turbo air inlet was NOT coming from the PCV hose. This hose was clean and dry. With my custom plumbing, the PCV hose is several inches away from the turbo. My PCV appeared to be blocked / plugged / inoperative, causing crankcase pressure to build up. This is what was causing the oil to leak past the turbo seal into the turbo air inlet.

With a faulty PCV, it's conceivable that after awhile, there will be enough oil to "backflow" to the PCV hose, but it's highly unlikely. I would expect the normal airflow into the turbo to keep the oil from seeping back into the PCV hose.

There's a lot of possibilities for "oil consumption", including a "bad" break-in procedure. I hate to see an investment in a new valve cover if there's nothing wrong with it. If there's oil in the PCV hose, it's probably normal, but possibly excessive. PCV is "Pressure Control Valve" --- designed to relieve crankcase pressure. Crankcase pressure is air that contains oil vapors. Cleaning the turbo air inlet hose and adding an OCC should fix the problem.

This is probably old news for most of us, but from the way some posts are worded, it's difficult to determine who knows what.

 

In my case it was oil sitting on the turbo housing inlet that gave me a Red flag. The catch can has only been on a few weeks now, so I'll see what it looks like when I change my oil next. Hopefully very little, if any. If there is, I guess I will then go further

 

PCV means, "Positive Crankcase Ventilation"

Dave

 

Hi Dave --- you seem to be as contrary as I am. I'm using the PCV description from Bentley, pg 130-53, at least 3 different paragraphs. Same description for the non-turbo version on pg 130-20.

Possibly you're using the original meaning, from the '50's, when engines were a bit simpler? Either way, both descriptions get the idea across --- one of the necessary evils we need to deal with.

 

Bump.

I've had my BSH OCC/Boost Tap installed for about 3 years and I periodically drain the catch can. But only when I removed the can over the weekend to replace my thermostat, did I realize that there was gunk in there that was not coming out. It was thick enough that gravity alone would not drain it from the drain hole. I had to shake it quite a bit, followed by carb cleaner to get it all out. It was probably at least half full.

I noticed, too, that the hoses have hardened somewhat and are cracking. Also the o-ring inside the boost tap has split.

 

Fourth (4rd) drain on my BSH oil catch can:



Car info: 2009 R55 JCW
Current Date: 1/17/2016
Current Mileage: 24460 miles
Miles since Last Emptied: 10547 miles

Notes:
- last emptying was over 4+ years ago (November 2012)
- multiple snow seasons produced very heavy water condensation
- semi-clear fluid is discolored (oxidized rust) water is on the bottom layer
- the milky tan layer is the result of a chemical reaction involving the oil vapor with condensation
- dark brown top layer is oil.
- engine oil in crankcase was up to level at all time, and four (4x) oil changes were in the period since last drain.

Observation: car was in periods of storage / unused during this session.
When in use car was driven on longer trips along with 20+ min daily grind to the office including weekend road tips (1-2 hour drive time).

Thoughts: nothing new to report; steadily watching collection of fluids.

- Erik

 

I've had the BSH catch can on my car for over 3 years. This year, after reading a bunch of stuff, I decided to un-block the rear port (by removing the plug in the boost tap). I used to have to drain the catch can weekly during winter (getting between 4-6 oz of liquid per week). I have filled gallon jugs over a year. Now I get less than 1 oz per week during winter. My proportion of water to oil is similar to what you have in the picture.


I did this to see if oil consumption would decrease (I usually add about 1.5 quarts between 5k mile oil changes). I have not noticed a difference in oil usage.


This is my daily driver, it is about 20 miles each way to work.


Mike