Thumper,

Maybe this is covered elsewhere, but did they do a different intake on the JCW Cars versus the JCW addon package for the S models?

 

Hmmmm, to be honest I'm not sure. I think they both use the same.

All I know is the open aftermarket ones suck plenty of hot air in, not to mention screw with the MAF location, which is extremely sensitive to changes in airflow.

Yes, I'm guilty, I have the DDM Street, and do like it, but like it purely for the sound...sure it prob flows a little bit more than stock up top but who cares really...I'm sure it does more harm than good for everyday driving. It certainly caused issues when trying to tune my car originally, but since have been fixed. I got it used for cheap....I just like that I can hear the turbo spool...I'm not even that big of a fan of the "psssssh" blow-off noise, but LOVE LOVE LOVE the spool . You just gotta have it on a turbo car!

I'd pick up the JCW one in a heartbeat, if I wasn't a sucker for the sound of my hot air DDM. Might still do it anyway if I come across one for cheap...

 

JCW's have different intake systems and guys you missed the biggest difference's TURBO's AND HEADS are different. The turbo has been massaged and the Heads are much more free flowing. Thumper is right though about the exhaust and all. You may be better swapping back to stock and just changing the filter element to a freer flowing unit inside the intake. I would also ditch the forge I/C for the Helix as it appears to have better flow characteristics which are really important on the JCW as it needs additional flow over a Cooper S. Plus you could be losing flow through the homemade hotside. Remember that air likes the path of least resistance and if you have any weird changes in size or direction even slight you will lose flow which could be part of the reason you don't have the numbers you were looking for .

 

I was already aware of the turbo and head differences. I can say this much about the intake:
I had the DDM Street Intake + DDM scoop for the last year. I took it off last week and put the JCW intake back on (along with the mini madness cone filter element, replacing the OEM element). Throttle response on the street intake is far better... I suppose it could be my imagination (e.g. psychological), but the car just doesn't feel the same with it. Like you Thumper, I've grown tired of the PSSSSHAAA... I'm going to try the M7 next; it seems to mix the best of both worlds.. semi-closed element + use of scoop. And it comes with a turbo heat shield to boot!
So we'll see.


~Jproz

 

I'm sure the head work is very minimal, as it was on the R53. Same with the turbo, I'm sure its very minimal. It's still a KO3, granted it is modified... but if it was modified very much, you would be seeing big gains on a tuned JCW. For the price difference of a Cooper S to a JCW, you could get your own hybrid KO3 made, and get much much better gains. However, lacking the "forged" internals and lowered compression of the JCW. So that alone might be worth the price of admission if you're going to be modifying your car highly. Time will tell what the S motor can take though.

Also, you hit the nail on the head with the Forge vs. Helix IC...should have been patient and waited Orangecrush...not saying it sucks, but I really think Helix has a winner on their hands with their IC design. Still waiting for mine like everyone else, but I like what I see VERY much. And like I said before, I've not heard very good things about the Forge. That's not your problem though...we're talking minor horsepower differences between the two I'm sure.

And what he said here about the changes in airflow making big differences, he hit the nail on the head. Sure a pipe might appear to flow smoother and better than stock, but that's not the whole story. This car appears to be extremely sensitive to changes in airflow dynamics. My pipes are staying stock, until I'm really looking for those last few ponies. It's just not worth the headache to me. Stock works, its proven. Sure you might make 5-10 whp more (at most), but really...big frickin deal thats so minimal, and not worth it at all. (To me)

**edit....add-on: I think OrangeCrush's story here is a prime example of people buying parts for their car, and since its aftermarket and you spent money on it...its gotta be better than stock right? Sadly and truthfully, not always the case. And no offense intended

 

Mark (orangecrush)

I'm very sorry to read of your disappointment. I'm sure with all of the hype your expectations were very high and the results just weren't optimal. I can't help but wonder if your boost tube problem interfered enough that the tune couldn't be tweaked to perfection.

I think Thumper had a great observation. Part of why the JCW has more power is more aggressive ECU tuning. This leaves less to squeeze out of it with a tune. I also firmly believe from my own experience that wide open airflow actually works against performance. I wouldn't be surprised if you are losing power with your current setup. Picking up a high flow panel air filter for the stock airbox and putting it back on your car would be a great test to see if that helps. I think it will, though you'll lose most of the intake noise. I have a hard time believing there is a noticeable real world difference between one aftermarket intercooler and another. There isn't a whole lot more to get out of the stock turbo.

To answer another question, the JCW tuning kit for the MCS comes with a different intake that mounts a cone filter inside of a more aerodynamic airbox. The factory JCW uses the same intake setup as the standard MCS. I think these are revealing design decisions.

 

A few thoughts...

I agree about the boost tube. It wasn't meant to be a homemade design... ill fitment of the ED hotside pipe caused me to "make something up" so I can attend the dyno tune. I've already got an NM engr'ing hotside tube on the way.

Cold air intake... though Fugitive caught it, some of you didn't. A factory JCW DOES NOT come with a JCW CAI. It comes with a regular "S" intake. That said Fugitive, I don't think it's a design decision, I think it's a selling feature because if that's the case, what they are saying is "our JCW intakes do not work as well as a "S" otherwise we would put the performance intake on our performance car".

I do have the downpipe (which has to make a difference because it's so obvious just from "seat of your pants". Now, the bigger exhaust all the way back... I dunno. I couldn't see a 2.5 freer flowing exhaust hurting but I'm not mini so who knows.

Last but not least. For clarification, though I have seen HP results in the same and perhaps more than I have, I still haven't seen torque above 238-240. At 250, maybe the little puppy is maxed out and 10 more ft lbs of torque is all I'm going to see.... I was just expecting more.

Mark

 

Just out of curiousity, where are you getting your facts from? I'd like to know because I searched and searched and only found one thread from a member that did physical side by side tests measuring air pressure drops, temp changes, etc. The forge held it's own in the test and the Helix wasn't even available.

Not to mention that the Forge and the Helix look almost identical except one is cast and the other are welded panels (Forge)

Now I'm not an expert but I think as long as you have a better performing aftermarket intercooler, I doubt the differences are that substantially different.

No doubt... I'm sure my last minute concoction didn't help things. We'll see when I get my new tube in.

Mark

 

Holy Crap!
I am so bummed I missed the tune day in Rochester..... now who knows how long I'm going to have to wait for Jan to come back to the east coast!!!!!!

 

Well now you've got a chance to get some mods that will only make your tune more worthwhile!

 

I can confirm once I receive mine next Monday but my hunch is that MINI opted not to put the JCW intake on the factory JCW due to cost. It may be only worth a few HP at most and a little more sound and they new they were already having to increase the price of the car too much. This is probably also the same reason they didn't include the JCW suspension. This also gives them something else to potentially sell later for higher profit.

I remember long ago Jan starting a thread here saying he was working on a catted 2.5" turbo back exhaust for the R56. Somebody asked him if he would also release an intake and his response was something like, "it won't make your car any faster on the track so no"

I am absolutely certain the JCW factory exhaust is not anywhere near the best system. Noise regulations make it impossible for MINI to accomplish that.

 

True dat

BTW- how do you like Alta's exhaust system and the DDMWorks race intake?
They are on my list of mods.

 

DDM Works RIS is bad to the bone. I love it. Brings a definite gain in power, engine bay styling, and sound. Very good item!

Alta's turboback system is good, but my tastes are changing. The system has TWO cats in it and a mid section resonator to cut down noise. Don't get me wrong, you'll definitely be feeling the difference on your butt dyno and it's tone is meant to be pleasing and not overly annoying. Also, the CEL issue is true, but you learn to live with it by reading the code every once in a while.

However, with the new developments from Riss Racing and Exhaust Depot I can safely say I'd probaly sell the alta turboback system and get one of the newer ones. Those non-cat downpipes from both companies definitely give you more power and have a more aggressive tone, but you should be aware of your states laws on emissions checks. I don't know if anyone has seen but DDM has a great new cat-back system for the R56 that's a true bolt-on! I personally like the way the tips on the DDM exhaust are designed more but that's all a matter of opinion.

So to sum it up... DDM products are among the best. The Alta turboback is very good, but during the summer of '09 better products were developed!

 

Awesome feedback, thanks

Yeah, I've seen the DDMWorks one- looks nice... just don't want anything too loud and don't know how aggressive that one is.
My Borla on my ol' Cooper just kept getting louder, and louder, and louder. I ended up hating it.

 

You can hear clips of DDM's new exhaust here. That's just cat-back with a stock downpipe.
http://www.ddmworks.com/mini/cooper_...e/exhaust.html

Here's Exhaust Depot's turbo back setup. It's a lot more aggressive and raspy. It's pure mean. I like that sort of thing but you may not.
http://www.exhaustdepot.net/exder56tuca.html

Here's Alta's. There is a huge difference! You can definitely tell the sound is attenuated. It just might be what you're looking for. Don't be fooled, it really hauls ***.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7ZSTNXQSVs

 

hello everybody there this is my first post and just to say hello

 

Shane, you are a wealth of knowledge! Thanks for the comparisons.
Yeah, I'd have to say from that, I'd probably pick the Alta, but who knows when I finally get my butt in gear to what I decide.....


Ahhhhh, I've missed NAM.. haven't been here in a while.

BTW- nice website

 

Thanks for the complements! I have but a fraction of knowledge that most other members have. The NAM group is great!

 

So how'd you make out with the tune Jimmy?

 

Theres butt-dynos and real dynos from customers that have the gains proven in facts whether the gains are from exhausts to intakes.

 

BTW, I ordered an NM engr'ing hotside tube and while I'm waiting for it to show, I happened to come across the M7 hotside tube.

Even though the NM is metal and mandrel bent, I prefer a one piece silicone tube so I ordered the M7 one also.

Guess I'll be sending the NM one back.

Mark

EDIT: Okay, I also ordered the M7 super AGS-R cold air intake.

That should take care of any thoughts about an open air intake and my half assed attempt to fix my hotside tube.

 

I'm going to sound lame here, but what's a hotside tube?

 

It's a tube when you touch one side, it's hot.

Seriously...that's it.








It's the tube that goes from the turbo to the intercooler. From the factory, it has a "muffler" in it which impeded air flow.

Aftermarket version are usually larger in diameter made of hard silicone or metal. The point is it allows for a faster, smoother flow of air.

HTH's,

Mark

 

Ok, gotcha... just haven't heard it called that before.

 

So you ever get to play around with dynolicious for those 0 to 60 and 1/4 times? lol .... Anyone else with a tune have performance times?