So, I searched the forums but couldn't find the answers I was seeking. I'm planning a tranny swap for my JustACooper, to put in the Getrag 6speed. To do so I need to put in a S Flywheel and clutch, but considering the high weight of the stock combo I'd like to put in a lightweight flywheel. I was considering these options, Clutchmasters FX100 clutch + their flywheel, or Fidanza flywheel + Helix clutch kit, the one Lohen sells in the UK:

http://www.lohen.co.uk/shop/proddeta...HelixClutchkit

From what I've found I reckon the two flywheels are very similar, am I wrong? As for the clutches, I've seen Helix does now carry the Clutchmasters ones too but the one I linked is not that one, is it? Does anyone have experience with the one I posted?

Thanks for any imput you can give me.

 

I've heard good things with the CM kits. The CM and Fidanza Flywheel is very similar and will work the same but if your going to get a CM clutch, might as well get a CM flywheel. See if you can find a Clutch/Flywheel kit for a discount since your buying them both together. From what I've heard the Fx2oo performs a bit better than the Fx1oo and lasts 2 to 3 times longer for about 100 to 150 more.

I currently have a CM Fx2oo and CM flywheel sitting at home, waiting to be put into the car.

 

If you don't want clutch chatter at idle make sure your clutch disc has a sprung center hub. If you're not sure what it looks like here are some sample pics: (*This only applies if you're going to be using a lightweight flywheel*)

Unsprung Clutch Disc:


Sprung Clutch Disc:


The springs in the center hub act as harmonic dampers which absorb shock generated from the engine, which is transmitted into the transmission through the clutch assembly.

 

Thanks ninjlao, that was exactly my concern with the Helix kit sold by Lohen, it's unsprung...

Thanks MrCooperS too for your input

 

Your welcome. Glad to help.

I've heard even with sprung clutch disc, it's the light flywheel that makes clutch chatter at idle. I'm not 100% sure, but I've seen that topic pop up from time to time on NAM and it's usually the lightened flywheel. Do a quick search.

 

I just had a sprung CM FX300 and flywheel installed about 600 miles ago and it still chatters at idle from the flywheel

 

The way I understand it though, an unsprung clutch will make the chatter even worse...

 

I've CM FX200 + CM Flywheel + Quaife installed two weeks ago. After 250miles, it chatter just as much as with zero miles. From what I have read on NAM, the chatter is from the Flywheel not clutch. Stock flywheel is dual-mass type, which dampen the chatter and vibration.

BTW, it would be good time to install a LSD while you are installing the flywheel and clutch.

 

+1, I also had a Quaife installed and it was well worth the money. I highly recommend one if you have the funds to get one

 

Yeah, already ordered a Quaife

 

Just to clear up the confusion it is not either, or that makes the clutch chatter. It is the combination of both. A Dual Mass flywheel has built in torsion dampers (springs) which reduce the harmonic noise known as clutch chatter. A Dual Mass Flywheel is more efficient at reducing clutch chatter than a sprung hub clutch.

The downside, however, is that dual mass flywheels cannot be resurfaced and are not very performance oriented. DMFs were originally intended for use on Diesel vehicles only as they experience very rough idles. They were adapted for use in luxury vehicles as more a "creature comfort" than anything else. An interesting thing to note is that European Car Manufacturer's are the #1 users of Dual Mass Flywheels.

Back on topic: Lightweight flywheels eliminate the torsion dampers found in dual mass flywheels, however without torsion dampers the power spikes from the engine will cause the gears to rattle back and forth in the transmission. While this isn't harmful it sure as hell can get pretty annoying. As a result most companies who introduce a lightweight flywheel to a market that uses DMFs will generally also produce a clutch disc with a sprung hub to help eliminate the harmonic noises.

Another thing to note is that a sprung disc will have more "give" when engaging the clutch, allowing more slip than a solid hub disc (*only when used with a solid flywheel/lightweight flywheel*). As far as advertised clutch life goes, don't ever count on a clutch lasting longer than the OEM. The biggest factor in the lifespan of a clutch is how the user drives the vehicle. And to those who think Carbon Kevlar will last longer than an organic...I would say about 90% of the time that is not the case. Organic discs can experience a minor amount of glaze, but under normal non-aggressive driving conditions, it gets rid of the glazing over about 500 miles. Once a Carbon Kevlar disc is glazed, it's time to throw it away...

 

thanks for the clarification... its nice to know the details of the concepts.

 

GREAT info! I'm doing the same thing. Now I know to get a sprung clutch disc with the flywheel.

Next question: how light is too light? I think the stock Cooper's is 14lbs, S=24lbs. Lightweight S options range from 9-14 lbs I think. I've heard a lightweight flywheel is harder to drive in traffic and slow launch. Is this true? how light do you have to get to notice the driving difficulty. I will assume that going with one as light as the stock Cooper clutch will be the same as what I'm driving now, but what about going lighter?

 

ninjlao: so reading your post, 500 miles will get rid of a glazed clutch? I've currently got a situation where my car sounds like a school bus taking off from a stop. Not all the time, but maybe 30% of the time it makes this "earrrrgh" sound. I had read this was the result of a glazed clutch. I've put well over 500 miles on my clutch (city driving), and it still does it... Will it go away, or is it gonna be like this till I replace it? I just assumed I'd have to replace it...

 

A lightweight flywheel takes some getting used too as it makes the engine RPMs accelerate faster AND decelerate faster. If you're going to be in stop and go traffic, but still want the benefit of a lightweight flywheel I would go with something about 13-14 lbs. Stock Cooper is about 17lbs I believe, and the Cooper S is 27lbs.

You have oil leaking onto your clutch disc, which I believe there is a service bulletin to replace at your dealership. A glazed clutch will not really make any sounds, other than that it will slip when the engine begins to make more power.

 

Thanks for the info

 

Depends on how much lighter you go

If I'm not mistaken both the Fidanza and the Clutchmasters are 12 lbs, would that be ok for stop and go traffic?

P.S. Did you receive my PM?

 

12 lbs is fine for stop and go traffic, but you may get some more clutch chatter than desired. Every car reacts differently to lightweight flywheels, so to be honest there is really no guarantee as to whether or not your vehicle will experience clutch chatter or not. The 13-14lb flywheel is really just to be on the safe side. As for the PM I did receive it, if you didn't get my response I'll resend it once more.

 

As a Reference We just put in the OS Giken Clutch/flywheel and Diff. About 300 miles on it so far (and a trip to road Atlanta) the Diff is beautiful with no clunking and locks and unlocks very progressively. The clutch and flywheel so far no chatter at all. Very impressed!
We pulled a fidanza out because of the chatter.

 

What are the prices for those? For the average user I think the OS Giken clutch may be overkill. Isn't it a 6-puck?

 

Not a 6 puck in the sense that I'm used to seeing them with 6 small seperate pucks (pictures below). Very streetable. I must say it's very enjoyable to drive. Like I said we've only got a few hundered miles on ours and so far no chatter. Bit of a Wurring metal on metal noise when the clutch is depressed. It's very faint and The guys at OS Giken said it's part of the design. It also comes with a metal throw out bearing. Here is some pictures I took of ours before putting it in.

 

Hmm, only one picture per post apparently.

 

 

 

That's an interesting setup, looks similar to a twin-plate design except there's only one disc. That disc looks like it may be sintered iron...but I may be wrong. What's the pricing on one of those?