Drivetrain Turbo vs Supercharged MINIs - let's meet at the track, RMW!!!
5th Gear
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 824
Likes: 1
From: Long Beach, CA
Mula, nobody noticed my suggestions on page 7...
...why would they listen to yours on this page? I don't mean to dis YOU, mula, but the fact is that these two chimps aren't interested in really proving anything except how far each of them can ****, and whether they can rile each other and their fanboys in the process.
Engine displacement is a pretty big determiner of HP and torque. 2.0 vs. 1.6 is a 25% displacement difference. No matter what method of breathing one uses, a 25% bigger capacity pump is still just that: 25% bigger! Seems to me that for a contest to determine "what is the 'best' tuning approach, Turbo or SC?" then the rules should specify a minimum weight and maximum displacement, and a maximum $ amount. Other than that, NO RULES.
As a potential "end-user" what I'd like to see, is some max displacement and min weight with two (or more) tuners invited, using whatever parts each wants, and various cars prepared with various maximum $ budgets. Like one for $5,000, another for maybe $10,000, and a third for $15,000. Each group of cars would have to drive to the track, be weighed before and after, and a list of parts with prices come to a neutral judge. Then all entrants would have the following: time trials of some sort on a road course, three 1/4 mile runs with ave. times posted, and all them tested on the same dyno.
All this other BS seems to me to be just each contestant trying to get his own advantage or seeing who can **** the farthest. I have respected both of you guys for a long time. With each page of this junk, I'm liking both of you less.
Please just agree on some rules that won't pre-determine a winner. If that is not possible, then this pissing contest is just like watching two gorillas beating their chests at each other: a diverting entertainment, but not really very meaningful.
As a potential "end-user" what I'd like to see, is some max displacement and min weight with two (or more) tuners invited, using whatever parts each wants, and various cars prepared with various maximum $ budgets. Like one for $5,000, another for maybe $10,000, and a third for $15,000. Each group of cars would have to drive to the track, be weighed before and after, and a list of parts with prices come to a neutral judge. Then all entrants would have the following: time trials of some sort on a road course, three 1/4 mile runs with ave. times posted, and all them tested on the same dyno.
All this other BS seems to me to be just each contestant trying to get his own advantage or seeing who can **** the farthest. I have respected both of you guys for a long time. With each page of this junk, I'm liking both of you less.
Please just agree on some rules that won't pre-determine a winner. If that is not possible, then this pissing contest is just like watching two gorillas beating their chests at each other: a diverting entertainment, but not really very meaningful.
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,103
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix AZ
Can we get a vote of who would go for this?
and how much would be fare to charge for entry into the track, show, and run your car?
Come on guys! Are you telling me that you would rather bicker and argue, over having a weekend of fun?!
I'm in! I would be willing to spens say $20. at the gate. and $20 to enter the car show. And $20 for three runs on the 1/4 and 3 runs on the autox.
plus food, some memorabelia, etc. $100 per person maybe? sound fair?
vendors. what can you contribute? step up if you want in on showing off some mini products, and meeting each other!
Whos next?!
and how much would be fare to charge for entry into the track, show, and run your car?
Come on guys! Are you telling me that you would rather bicker and argue, over having a weekend of fun?!
I'm in! I would be willing to spens say $20. at the gate. and $20 to enter the car show. And $20 for three runs on the 1/4 and 3 runs on the autox.
plus food, some memorabelia, etc. $100 per person maybe? sound fair?
vendors. what can you contribute? step up if you want in on showing off some mini products, and meeting each other!
Whos next?!
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,103
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix AZ
...why would they listen to yours on this page? I don't mean to dis YOU, mula, but the fact is that these two chimps aren't interested in really proving anything except how far each of them can ****, and whether they can rile each other and their fanboys in the process.
well maybe I can change that.
would you go?
5th Gear
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 824
Likes: 1
From: Long Beach, CA
mula, you bet I would go. I like your idea of making "a weekend" of it. SCMM could make it their annual event, just as AMVIV, the Dragon, etc. are successful, I think this could be too. SoCal MINI Maniacs NEED a fund raiser (IMO)!!
I like your ideas. I'd like to see a bunch of vendors there, too. I just don't think that they REALLY want this sort of challenge. If they don't think there is a way for them to cheat and tilt the table their way, then they are not interested. I understand their reasoning, and if I were in their shoes, I might be the same way. But, that doesn't mean I have to like it.
I like your ideas. I'd like to see a bunch of vendors there, too. I just don't think that they REALLY want this sort of challenge. If they don't think there is a way for them to cheat and tilt the table their way, then they are not interested. I understand their reasoning, and if I were in their shoes, I might be the same way. But, that doesn't mean I have to like it.
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,103
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix AZ
mula, you bet I would go. I like your idea of making "a weekend" of it. SCMM could make it their annual event, just as AMVIV, the Dragon, etc. are successful, I think this could be too. SoCal MINI Maniacs NEED a fund raiser (IMO)!!
I like your ideas. I'd like to see a bunch of vendors there, too. I just don't think that they REALLY want this sort of challenge. If they don't think there is a way for them to cheat and tilt the table their way, then they are not interested. I understand their reasoning, and if I were in their shoes, I might be the same way. But, that doesn't mean I have to like it.
I like your ideas. I'd like to see a bunch of vendors there, too. I just don't think that they REALLY want this sort of challenge. If they don't think there is a way for them to cheat and tilt the table their way, then they are not interested. I understand their reasoning, and if I were in their shoes, I might be the same way. But, that doesn't mean I have to like it.
5th Gear
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 923
Likes: 1
From: Southern IL
Revolution?
Mynes?
what do you guys think of my proposals?
both the event and the car restrictions.
You are both the challengers. And professional business men. There could be good money made for both of you at this event.
It gives both you a chance to explain to all of us what, and how the builds were done. And what gains were accomplished. it gives you a chance to show off your abilities.
Mynes?
what do you guys think of my proposals?
both the event and the car restrictions.
You are both the challengers. And professional business men. There could be good money made for both of you at this event.
It gives both you a chance to explain to all of us what, and how the builds were done. And what gains were accomplished. it gives you a chance to show off your abilities.
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,103
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix AZ
Gnatster suggested something like this in Issue 4 of Alliance Magazine, although he wanted to place it more towards the middle of the country, geographically between AMVIV and MOTD. Maybe a good rivalry and some sponsorship dollars is just what this idea needs. Please make the MINI HPDE/Time trial a reality.
Revolution?
Mynes?
what do you guys think of my proposals?
both the event and the car restrictions.
You are both the challengers. And professional business men. There could be good money made for both of you at this event.
It gives both you a chance to explain to all of us what, and how the builds were done. And what gains were accomplished. it gives you a chance to show off your abilities.
Mynes?
what do you guys think of my proposals?
both the event and the car restrictions.
You are both the challengers. And professional business men. There could be good money made for both of you at this event.
It gives both you a chance to explain to all of us what, and how the builds were done. And what gains were accomplished. it gives you a chance to show off your abilities.
5th Gear
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 923
Likes: 1
From: Southern IL
I hope so, I don't see why he'd object to turning this whole thing into something positive for the MINI community, if it's close enough to me I'm definitely down for attending and helping however I can.
Gnatster suggested something like this in Issue 4 of Alliance Magazine, although he wanted to place it more towards the middle of the country, geographically between AMVIV and MOTD. Maybe a good rivalry and some sponsorship dollars is just what this idea needs. Please make the MINI HPDE/Time trial a reality.
.Who the hells going to pony up anything for a huge Mini event at this time???
AMVIV will have half the people that attended last year next month.
It's just reality.
Longboard
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,103
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix AZ
This might have been possible to set up to years ago. If you guys haven't noticed the counties in a melt down. Sponsorship? Do you guys follow racing of any form? Todd Bodine won the opening round of the Nascar truck series in Daytona without a sponsor on the hood .
Who the hells going to pony up anything for a huge Mini event at this time???
AMVIV will have half the people that attended last year next month.
It's just reality.
Longboard
.Who the hells going to pony up anything for a huge Mini event at this time???
AMVIV will have half the people that attended last year next month.
It's just reality.
Longboard
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,103
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix AZ
Longboard, this is in your neck of the woods. And one of the challengers built your car, so I know you'll be there rite?
i hope so. I would like to see it perform.
I know this event has the potential to be great! It just takes all of us to participate.
i hope so. I would like to see it perform.
I know this event has the potential to be great! It just takes all of us to participate.
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,103
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix AZ
I would like to discuss it further at AMVIV
Lets look at the numbers....
Track Rental - 2nd tier track - Hallett Raceway in noplace OK. 2785.00/day = 5570
Corner Workers/Starter/Grid Personnel, Emergency personnel incl Ambulance + Feeding that group - 1250/2 days
Liability Ins for Event ~3000
Instructors - Free Track Time + Lunch
That 10 grand needed to put something like this on.
5 Run groups - Novice, Intermediate, Advanced, Instructors. Racers
15 cars MAX per group but I'd figure only 45 would pony up the cash makes it 225 per
I wrote in October about doing something like this and then worked the phones. I was told put it on and we'll come. When i asked for help in putting it on....crickets.
I've been down this road before and lost a hell of lot of money. I'll help organize but would want to see 10K in the bank to start. I don't even need access to it...just need to know the costs are covered. I can tell you from experience it will end up costing more.
Want to use a So Cal located track...figure double. Want a top tier track like Road America, Mid-Ohio, Road Atlanta? You'll need to book weekend dates for 2010 now.
Track Rental - 2nd tier track - Hallett Raceway in noplace OK. 2785.00/day = 5570
Corner Workers/Starter/Grid Personnel, Emergency personnel incl Ambulance + Feeding that group - 1250/2 days
Liability Ins for Event ~3000
Instructors - Free Track Time + Lunch
That 10 grand needed to put something like this on.
5 Run groups - Novice, Intermediate, Advanced, Instructors. Racers
15 cars MAX per group but I'd figure only 45 would pony up the cash makes it 225 per
I wrote in October about doing something like this and then worked the phones. I was told put it on and we'll come. When i asked for help in putting it on....crickets.
I've been down this road before and lost a hell of lot of money. I'll help organize but would want to see 10K in the bank to start. I don't even need access to it...just need to know the costs are covered. I can tell you from experience it will end up costing more.
Want to use a So Cal located track...figure double. Want a top tier track like Road America, Mid-Ohio, Road Atlanta? You'll need to book weekend dates for 2010 now.
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,103
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix AZ
Lets look at the numbers....
Track Rental - 2nd tier track - Hallett Raceway in noplace OK. 2785.00/day = 5570
Corner Workers/Starter/Grid Personnel, Emergency personnel incl Ambulance + Feeding that group - 1250/2 days
Liability Ins for Event ~3000
Instructors - Free Track Time + Lunch
That 10 grand needed to put something like this on.
5 Run groups - Novice, Intermediate, Advanced, Instructors. Racers
15 cars MAX per group but I'd figure only 45 would pony up the cash makes it 225 per
I wrote in October about doing something like this and then worked the phones. I was told put it on and we'll come. When i asked for help in putting it on....crickets.
I've been down this road before and lost a hell of lot of money. I'll help organize but would want to see 10K in the bank to start. I don't even need access to it...just need to know the costs are covered. I can tell you from experience it will end up costing more.
Want to use a So Cal located track...figure double. Want a top tier track like Road America, Mid-Ohio, Road Atlanta? You'll need to book weekend dates for 2010 now.
Track Rental - 2nd tier track - Hallett Raceway in noplace OK. 2785.00/day = 5570
Corner Workers/Starter/Grid Personnel, Emergency personnel incl Ambulance + Feeding that group - 1250/2 days
Liability Ins for Event ~3000
Instructors - Free Track Time + Lunch
That 10 grand needed to put something like this on.
5 Run groups - Novice, Intermediate, Advanced, Instructors. Racers
15 cars MAX per group but I'd figure only 45 would pony up the cash makes it 225 per
I wrote in October about doing something like this and then worked the phones. I was told put it on and we'll come. When i asked for help in putting it on....crickets.
I've been down this road before and lost a hell of lot of money. I'll help organize but would want to see 10K in the bank to start. I don't even need access to it...just need to know the costs are covered. I can tell you from experience it will end up costing more.
Want to use a So Cal located track...figure double. Want a top tier track like Road America, Mid-Ohio, Road Atlanta? You'll need to book weekend dates for 2010 now.
Ok all you 61 Vendors here on NAM you heard the mini community. You want to show your support? pony up some money for this event! you let us know how much you can give. And what numbers you would like to see in return. ie. people count, as well as profit.
5th Gear
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 824
Likes: 1
From: Long Beach, CA
Here are a couple more thoughts: this would not HAVE to be a stand-alone event. It might be financially easier to have such a challenge as part of a larger event -- maybe even one that is already in the works and wants some "different" feature to add interest?
Make the venue wherever you are going to get the biggest potential draw. I like So Cal because it's close to me. if it's farther away than, say two days drive each way -- without busting my butt -- it's pretty unlikely I'll attend JUST for the challenge.
Lastly, to attract most, IMO, you need to make sure it's reasonable for both Gen 2 as well as Gen 1 to participate. I could b wrong on this one. Probably Gnatster has some thought on this factor.
Make the venue wherever you are going to get the biggest potential draw. I like So Cal because it's close to me. if it's farther away than, say two days drive each way -- without busting my butt -- it's pretty unlikely I'll attend JUST for the challenge.
Lastly, to attract most, IMO, you need to make sure it's reasonable for both Gen 2 as well as Gen 1 to participate. I could b wrong on this one. Probably Gnatster has some thought on this factor.
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,103
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix AZ
Here are a couple more thoughts: this would not HAVE to be a stand-alone event. It might be financially easier to have such a challenge as part of a larger event -- maybe even one that is already in the works and wants some "different" feature to add interest?
I was thinking that the Challenge would be a big enough event in itself to peak the interest of others to join in. I think these guys started something bigger then they even expected. In a great way!
Make the venue wherever you are going to get the biggest potential draw. I like So Cal because it's close to me. if it's farther away than, say two days drive each way -- without busting my butt -- it's pretty unlikely I'll attend JUST for the challenge.
As of now, and I would like it to stay this way. the challenge was originated for and currently heading to So-Cal from my understanding.
For those that cant make it, I am going to look into a DVD of the events hi-lights!
Lastly, to attract most, IMO, you need to make sure it's reasonable for both Gen 2 as well as Gen 1 to participate. I could b wrong on this one. Probably Gnatster has some thought on this factor.
I was thinking that the Challenge would be a big enough event in itself to peak the interest of others to join in. I think these guys started something bigger then they even expected. In a great way!
Make the venue wherever you are going to get the biggest potential draw. I like So Cal because it's close to me. if it's farther away than, say two days drive each way -- without busting my butt -- it's pretty unlikely I'll attend JUST for the challenge.
As of now, and I would like it to stay this way. the challenge was originated for and currently heading to So-Cal from my understanding.
For those that cant make it, I am going to look into a DVD of the events hi-lights!
Lastly, to attract most, IMO, you need to make sure it's reasonable for both Gen 2 as well as Gen 1 to participate. I could b wrong on this one. Probably Gnatster has some thought on this factor.
I even open an invitation to the "classic mini's" as well. There always a joy to see.
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,103
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix AZ
Has anyone heard from RMW? So far I have not had a reply of his approval of this whole event happening.
Mynes is in, as posted back a bit.
RMW? Interested?
This challenge gives you the chance to show off your efforts and tallents.
Your getting a lot of your support out here from your followers and clients.
You cant let them down. I promise, this event is going to be great fun for all!
Mynes is in, as posted back a bit.
RMW? Interested?
This challenge gives you the chance to show off your efforts and tallents.
Your getting a lot of your support out here from your followers and clients.
You cant let them down. I promise, this event is going to be great fun for all!
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,103
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix AZ
At this point in time I need a moderator to leave this thread running. Mainly because it's getting a hell of a lot of traffic.
but start a new sticky where we can keep track of which vendors are going to participate. How much $ they can bring to the table, how much more is needed.
We also need to have a poll for a confirmed attendant list. i would like for anyone who is going to attend please reply on it. so we can see the potential amount of participants.
If everyone does there part this is going to happen!
Mods. This is yours
but start a new sticky where we can keep track of which vendors are going to participate. How much $ they can bring to the table, how much more is needed.
We also need to have a poll for a confirmed attendant list. i would like for anyone who is going to attend please reply on it. so we can see the potential amount of participants.
If everyone does there part this is going to happen!
Mods. This is yours
5th Gear
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 824
Likes: 1
From: Long Beach, CA
Potential major sponsor? A tire brand, who might want to furnish the same model to all competitors. After all, tires are something we ALL buy, and they are a factor that help even out the playing field when all competitors use the same one. Where the rubber meets the road, baby!! Secondary sponsors, KONI, and a brake pad manufacturer to be named later? Go after the manufacturers of the "consumables" to come up with the biggest bucks.
I think you are right about the media distribution, too. DVDs with a commercial or two from the main sponsors, at nominal cost each, say one or two bucks. Mount cameras in the cars and make that footage part of the DVD.
I think you are right about the media distribution, too. DVDs with a commercial or two from the main sponsors, at nominal cost each, say one or two bucks. Mount cameras in the cars and make that footage part of the DVD.