Drivetrain (Cooper S) MINI Cooper S (R53) intakes, exhausts, pulleys, headers, throttle bodies, and any other modifications to the Cooper S drivetrain.

Drivetrain 02-06 JCW cyl head vs. MCS head

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jan 9, 2009 | 07:11 PM
  #1  
cucho's Avatar
cucho
Thread Starter
|
3rd Gear
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
02-06 JCW cyl head vs. MCS head

Can anyone elaborate on the differences between the JCW head and the R53 head (components, performance, possible HP gains, etc).
Thanks,
 
Reply
Old Jan 9, 2009 | 07:27 PM
  #2  
mini_racer's Avatar
mini_racer
5th Gear
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 756
Likes: 0
From: Austin, TX
The JCW head is ported a little on the exhaust side only, same valves, and same intake as the standard S. That's it, so if you are thinking about buying a head, don't spend money here, get a nice high flow aftermarket ported head with larger valves. I have an RMW head and like it.
 
Reply
Old Jan 9, 2009 | 08:35 PM
  #3  
Luys's Avatar
Luys
4th Gear
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 497
Likes: 0
From: Turkey
Originally Posted by mini_racer
The JCW head is ported a little on the exhaust side only, same valves, and same intake as the standard S. That's it, so if you are thinking about buying a head, don't spend money here, get a nice high flow aftermarket ported head with larger valves. I have an RMW head and like it.
+1
 
Reply
Old Jan 9, 2009 | 08:45 PM
  #4  
guidmini's Avatar
guidmini
3rd Gear
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
From: southern Calif
heads

Only differnce is exhaust valves are sodium filled. all ports and everything remain the same. A non S will work on a S.
 
Reply
Old Jan 9, 2009 | 10:21 PM
  #5  
tazio's Avatar
tazio
6th Gear
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,118
Likes: 3
From: Right here
I thought there was just some minor porting work on the exhaust side, as mini_racer said above.
 
Reply
Old Jan 10, 2009 | 03:42 AM
  #6  
MadMick's Avatar
MadMick
2nd Gear
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by guidmini
Only differnce is exhaust valves are sodium filled. all ports and everything remain the same. A non S will work on a S.
Bullsh.it! The S exhaust valves are made from inconel, the cooper valves are simple valve steelt.
The shaft diameter is only 6,x mm much to lees for sodium filling.

The JCW head is cnc ported on the exhaust side, nothing else.
Here are some pics....
 
Attached Thumbnails 02-06 JCW cyl head vs. MCS head-dsc00076.jpg   02-06 JCW cyl head vs. MCS head-tooling-1.jpg   02-06 JCW cyl head vs. MCS head-tooling-3.jpg  
Reply
Old Jan 10, 2009 | 06:27 AM
  #7  
onasled's Avatar
onasled
Banned
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,799
Likes: 3
From: Northeast CT
Originally Posted by MadMick
Bullsh.it! ...... ....
Is it that you have a personal issue with guidmini, or is it that you are just a poor communicator? Really, ..uncalled for.
 
Reply
Old Jan 10, 2009 | 07:31 AM
  #8  
cucho's Avatar
cucho
Thread Starter
|
3rd Gear
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
I guess the first pic is from an S head and the other 2 are from the JCW, right?

Originally Posted by MadMick
Bullsh.it! The S exhaust valves are made from inconel, the cooper valves are simple valve steelt.
The shaft diameter is only 6,x mm much to lees for sodium filling.

The JCW head is cnc ported on the exhaust side, nothing else.
Here are some pics....
 
Reply
Old Jan 10, 2009 | 07:32 AM
  #9  
cucho's Avatar
cucho
Thread Starter
|
3rd Gear
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
I agree with you on the aftermarket head but I have to get an stock head...as my extended warranty is paying for it

Originally Posted by mini_racer
The JCW head is ported a little on the exhaust side only, same valves, and same intake as the standard S. That's it, so if you are thinking about buying a head, don't spend money here, get a nice high flow aftermarket ported head with larger valves. I have an RMW head and like it.
 
Reply
Old Jan 10, 2009 | 08:02 AM
  #10  
MadMick's Avatar
MadMick
2nd Gear
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by onasled
Is it that you have a personal issue with guidmini, or is it that you are just a poor communicator? Really, ..uncalled for.
So I´m a poor communicator
Since 5 years it was the funniest statemant about the exhaust valves, nothing personal at all

Yes the first pic is a standard cooper S head, the other two details about the JCW porting.
 
Reply
Old Jan 10, 2009 | 08:43 AM
  #11  
mini_racer's Avatar
mini_racer
5th Gear
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 756
Likes: 0
From: Austin, TX
Originally Posted by cucho
I agree with you on the aftermarket head but I have to get an stock head...as my extended warranty is paying for it
Well, in that case, if you can talk them into a JCW head, then get it. While not much, it is better than the standard S head. However, don't pay extra for it, unless it is really cheap.

Also, if you can go offline on your MINI for a couple of weeks, maybe you could take the new OEM head from the dealership and send it off to a shop to get it upgraded (e.g. RMW, thumper, etc.) and then let the dealership install your upgraded head. When I shipped my JCW head back to RMW as a core I think it was only ~$30 to ship as just the head minus the cam is around 30 lbs.
I would assume the dealer wants to keep your damaged head.
It is an evil plan, but it could work.

BTW, how did your original head fail? I am very curious.
 
Reply
Old Jan 10, 2009 | 07:29 PM
  #12  
norm03s's Avatar
norm03s
6th Gear
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,808
Likes: 2
From: Ellicott City, Maryland USA
Originally Posted by MadMick
So I´m a poor communicator
Since 5 years it was the funniest statemant about the exhaust valves, nothing personal at all

Yes the first pic is a standard cooper S head, the other two details about the JCW porting.
That's right!
 
Reply
Old Jan 10, 2009 | 08:32 PM
  #13  
cucho's Avatar
cucho
Thread Starter
|
3rd Gear
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
That sounds like a good idea. Depending on how much it would cost I could end up doing it.
I already spent on a RMW cam and I might need to pay another couple hundreds to make up for the difference between the S and JCW head plus another $100 deductible...$$ keeps adding up, but if money would not be an issue I would definitely go for it.

By the way, I got 2 broken valves...according to the shop the spark plugs failed (broke) and caused the valves to brake .

Originally Posted by mini_racer
Well, in that case, if you can talk them into a JCW head, then get it. While not much, it is better than the standard S head. However, don't pay extra for it, unless it is really cheap.

Also, if you can go offline on your MINI for a couple of weeks, maybe you could take the new OEM head from the dealership and send it off to a shop to get it upgraded (e.g. RMW, thumper, etc.) and then let the dealership install your upgraded head. When I shipped my JCW head back to RMW as a core I think it was only ~$30 to ship as just the head minus the cam is around 30 lbs.
I would assume the dealer wants to keep your damaged head.
It is an evil plan, but it could work.

BTW, how did your original head fail? I am very curious.
 

Last edited by cucho; Jan 11, 2009 at 07:00 PM.
Reply
Old Jan 11, 2009 | 05:38 AM
  #14  
onasled's Avatar
onasled
Banned
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,799
Likes: 3
From: Northeast CT
Originally Posted by cucho
...
By the way, I got 2 broken valves...according to the shop's the spark plugs failed (broke) and caused the valves to brake .
Hmmm. .... guess you'ed better be looking into a new piston, and depending how messed up the cylinder wall is.... ???
Sounds strange.
 
Reply
Old Jan 11, 2009 | 08:00 AM
  #15  
ED955S's Avatar
ED955S
5th Gear
15 Year Member
Liked
Loved
iTrader: (1)
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 987
Likes: 30
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Cucho: what broken spark plugs were they? brand & model #
 
Reply
Old Jan 11, 2009 | 08:42 AM
  #16  
mini_racer's Avatar
mini_racer
5th Gear
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 756
Likes: 0
From: Austin, TX
Yeah, strange for sure. A spark plug breaking off in the head has got to be very rare.
 
Reply
Old Jan 11, 2009 | 10:20 AM
  #17  
james f's Avatar
james f
2nd Gear
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 132
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by mini_racer
Yeah, strange for sure. A spark plug breaking off in the head has got to be very rare.
nope not that rare i know of a few cars that have in the UK some plugs cant cope with the high heat from the boost on tuned cooper S's
 
Reply
Old Jan 11, 2009 | 07:11 PM
  #18  
cucho's Avatar
cucho
Thread Starter
|
3rd Gear
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by ED955S
Cucho: what broken spark plugs were they? brand & model #
They were NGK's 4 prong plugs (recommended by Mini) for MCS
 
Reply
Old Jan 11, 2009 | 07:16 PM
  #19  
cucho's Avatar
cucho
Thread Starter
|
3rd Gear
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by onasled
Hmmm. .... guess you'ed better be looking into a new piston, and depending how messed up the cylinder wall is.... ???
Sounds strange.
Very good point. Would you suggest recommending (forcing) the shop to first take the block to a machining shop or just wait until the shop performs the compression test after installing the new head??. Pls chime in with suggestions.
 
Reply
Old Jan 11, 2009 | 09:33 PM
  #20  
markldriskill's Avatar
markldriskill
5th Gear
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 824
Likes: 1
From: Long Beach, CA
Your sig. says you have a lot of mods? I'm glad your warranty is covering it anyway.
 
Reply
Old Jan 12, 2009 | 05:14 AM
  #21  
onasled's Avatar
onasled
Banned
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,799
Likes: 3
From: Northeast CT
Yes! If you had a plug break in the cylinder and it ended up bending two valves then it would be hard to imagine that the piston and cylinder walls did not experience damage also. Top of the piston for sure will have at least some dings in it.
I would have loved to have seen a picture of the plug and the damage. It's just hard to believe that the plug, especially these NKGs, would fall apart. Did the valves break or just bend? If the valves are broken then I say they went first.
 
Reply
Old Jan 12, 2009 | 05:14 AM
  #22  
stevecars60's Avatar
stevecars60
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,710
Likes: 1
From: Northampton MA
Don't put a new head on without 100% pistons & cylinder walls. Broken valves usualy cause extensive dammage.
 
Reply
Old Jan 12, 2009 | 05:06 PM
  #23  
cucho's Avatar
cucho
Thread Starter
|
3rd Gear
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by onasled
Yes! If you had a plug break in the cylinder and it ended up bending two valves then it would be hard to imagine that the piston and cylinder walls did not experience damage also. Top of the piston for sure will have at least some dings in it.
I would have loved to have seen a picture of the plug and the damage. It's just hard to believe that the plug, especially these NKGs, would fall apart. Did the valves break or just bend? If the valves are broken then I say they went first.
According to the shop valves broke...I did not see them myself...I should have but I was really busy with the holidays and all
 
Reply
Old Jan 12, 2009 | 05:07 PM
  #24  
cucho's Avatar
cucho
Thread Starter
|
3rd Gear
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by markldriskill
Your sig. says you have a lot of mods? I'm glad your warranty is covering it anyway.
 
Reply
Old Jan 13, 2009 | 09:09 AM
  #25  
onasled's Avatar
onasled
Banned
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,799
Likes: 3
From: Northeast CT
Originally Posted by cucho
According to the shop valves broke...I did not see them myself...I should have but I was really busy with the holidays and all
This is an important thing to check. You need to know why this happened and should have the head, plugs, pistons and cylinders diagnosed. I say this because you may have serious tuning issues that caused these problems. You don't want to get this all repaired and end up doing it all over again.
 
Reply



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:26 AM.