Should be 3 days max downtime for you

 

Folks at MINI-Madness,

Do you have any rebuttal (In law, rebuttal is a form of evidence that is presented to contradict or nullify other evidence that has been presented by another party) to this post?
I await your answer before I lay down any scratch......

 

Nothing written but we did travel to our local dealer to discuss this with our "friends " there. Under the radar they scanned the car like they always do and noting came up on their diagnostic equipment to reveal any changes. We did this years ago on the R53 as well with the same results. I also cannot remember anytime in the past 7 years that anyone has had issues with a dealer regarding a re flash of ours.

 

Might want to check out this thread for more info.......

 

By all means, also check out the linking thread on our responces over at PS MINI.org

We provided some good facts on that thread,

 

?????

 

????

 

Probably less with the JCW as it's pretty conservative. It would be hard to try this as most JCW's are sold as kits.

 

Correct. You would have to re send us the computer to re flash it. This takes less time as we already have the tuned file. In and out the same day. I asked our friends at the dealer and they said the factory updates were pretty much over about 6 months ago. There is always a chance

 

Not according to the folks that know what happened and were there. And your response on the PSMINI board had a lot of misinformation and unfounded accusations. Notice how the thread was locked after your response.....how fortunate.

Anyone thinking of getting a generic tune from this or any other tuner really needs to talk to the folks that were at the Seattle tune. Much better and less expensive alternatives available.

 

[FONT=Times New Roman]Hey George. As you know I have been very interested in getting an ECU tune for my R56. But as we have discussed in the past I am also skeptical of results posted for various tunes. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman] [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]Noticed your post re the tune and have a couple questions. As you are aware PS Mini had a Dyno Day back in May. The results are posted here: [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman]http://www.psmini.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3815[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman] [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]My R56 produced 175 WHP and 196 WTQ. The car has Milltek cat back exhaust and K&N drop in air filter along with your engine bushing. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman] [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]Your post makes the following statement: [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman] [/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Available now for the 2007+ R56 MINI Cooper S Turbo and Clubman!! Currently producing 44 Horsepower and 27ft Lbs of Torque with only 3 mods! - 44 whp and 27 tq gain from only 3 mods! - 15% Less traction control sensitivity - 350 rpm increase - Speed governor increased to 160mph, 260kph Also see our New Stage 1 and 2 packages below.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman] [/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman]From your posted Dyno Chart Looks likes like your baseline is: 153.50 WHP and 170.59 WTQ.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman] [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]Same Dyno chart shows the stage 1 kit producing 168.36 WHP and 188.48 WTQ and appears includes the following: [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman] [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Kit includes: Milltek R56 Exhaust, Madness Poly Engine Bushings, High Flow Air Filter. Everything needed to take your R56 MINI Cooper to 200HP at the crankshaft. Note:numbers quoted on dyno chart are wheel horsepower numbers.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman] [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]Your web site it shows the Dyno Chart producing 197.95 WHP and 197.58 WTQ requires the Stage 2 kit which includes: [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Kit includes: Milltek R56 Exhaust, Madness Poly Engine Bushings. Madness Intercooler Air Diverter, High Flow Air Filter, Madness/Evotech Software tuning. Everything needed to take your R56 MINI Cooper to 225HP at the crankshaft. Note:numbers quoted on dyno chart are wheel horsepower numbers. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman] [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]I am a little confused. The post says only 3 mods yet the stage 2 kit lists 5 products: exhaust, bushing, intercooler air diverter, air filter and tune. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman] [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]Questions are:[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman] What can be expected from the tune alone? [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman] What are the 3 mods of the tune, traction control, RPM increase and speed governor change?[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]How would these mods: less traction control, RPM increase and speed governor changes produce this much change in HP and TQ. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman] In order to get the full increase it seems you would have to purchase stage 2 kit, is this correct?[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman] What are the results from just the tune on an otherwise stock car?[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]What results could I expect from the tune with the mods I have and the baseline runs taken back in May?[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman] [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]Would really appreciate your help to better understand what going on with your tune and the various packages as presented. [/FONT]

 

How is this "not happening?"

5-10 for Intake and 5-10 for an exhaust. That's 10-20, those are not unreasonable numbers, in fact, they seem quite normal.

 

Agreed, this is a totally reasonable gain from parts like this especially on a turbocharged car. Better breathing and less exhaust restriction on the MINI is definitely a good thing. Not only that but if you look around other are getting similar results with these 2 mods.

 

Boomer can you revise your post? a bit hard to read

 

Buyers have to be smart and wise about their decision. Make sure you do your own baseline before and after embarking on major HP mods, in particular ECU tuning. This way you can substantiate any HP gain, if the gains does not meet expectation or fall short of vendor's claim then you have data to work with the vendor.

As you can see from image and link before. Some car are better endowed from factory. Just look at Boomer's car with only a Miltek cat back and K&N drop in, and its making 175hp/196lb at wheel.



http://www.psmini.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3815

 

Could not agree more! Having a baseline to start from is a great idea. That chart from PS MINI really is not a good one to show, the conditions that day were quite poor in our opinion. No fans no intercoolers, owners doing their own pulls, some being afraid to take their car to redline, some being run hot others run later in the day cold, these are just a few things that make that chart quite skewed in our opinion.

Regardless always get a baseline if possible before any major mod and always try and use the same dyno under the same conditions for your before and after's

 

Sorry about the post, did it on word and ended up with all the font messages.

Hey George. As you know I have been very interested in getting an ECU tune for my R56. But as we have discussed in the past I am also skeptical of results posted for various tunes.

Noticed your post re the tune and have a couple of questions. As you are aware PS Mini had a Dyno Day back in May. The results are posted here:
http://www.psmini.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3815

My R56 produced 175 WHP and 196 WTQ. The car has Milltek cat back exhaust and K&N drop in air filter along with your engine bushing.
Your post makes the following statement:

Available now for the 2007+ R56 MINI Cooper S Turbo and Clubman!! Currently producing 44 Horsepower and 27ft Lbs of Torque with only 3 mods! - 44 whp and 27 tq gain from only 3 mods! - 15% Less traction control sensitivity - 350 rpm increase - Speed governor increased to 160mph, 260kph Also see our New Stage 1 and 2 packages below.

From your posted Dyno Charts looks likes your baseline is: 153.50 WHP and 170.59 WTQ.

Same Dyno chart shows the stage 1 kit producing 168.36 WHP and 188.48 WTQ and appears includes the following:

Kit includes: Milltek R56 Exhaust, Madness Poly Engine Bushings, High Flow Air Filter. Everything needed to take your R56 MINI Cooper to 200HP at the crankshaft. Note:numbers quoted on dyno chart are wheel horsepower numbers

Your web site shows the Dyno Chart producing 197.95 WHP and 197.58 WTQ requires Stage 2 kit which includes:

Kit includes: Milltek R56 Exhaust, Madness Poly Engine Bushings. Madness Intercooler Air Diverter, High Flow Air Filter, Madness/Evotech Software tuning. Everything needed to take your R56 MINI Cooper to 225HP at the crankshaft. Note:numbers quoted on dyno chart are wheel horsepower numbers.

I am a little confused. The post says only 3 mods yet the stage 2 kit lists 5 products: exhaust, bushing, intercooler air diverter, air filter and tune.

Questions are:
What can be expected from the tune alone.
What are the 3 mods of the tune, traction control, RPM increase and speed governor change?
How would these mods: less traction control, RPM increase and speed governer changes produce this much change in HP and TQ?
In order to get the full increase it seems you would have to purchase stage 2 kit, is this correct?
What are the results from just the tune on an otherwise stock car?
What results could I expect from the tune with the mods I have and the baseline runs taken back in May?

Would really appreciate your help to better understand what going on with your tune and the various packages as presented.

Again, sorry about the fist post being hard to read.

 

Thanks for re posting Gregg

here are the answers.

1. Not sure on an only software gain, honestly that would be like putting on a pulley without an intake. Most would at least have some form of high flow filter and possibly an exhaust. Without these 2 pieces the gains would obviously be less. We simply have not tried it.

2. Areas of tune are Rpm increase, speed governor increase, traction control, fuel delivery, ignition timing and most importantly boost pressure. Boost pressure is where a good portion of the power comes from much like adding the pulley in the R53 model cars

3. With your car making that much TQ on the initial dyno I would have it rechecked again, the output doesn't seem accurate based on the ones we have tested here.

Give me a call if you have any more questions Gregg, I will also try and call you

 

What is the effect of the RPM increase? I assume that means redline increase. Obviously it allows you to rev higer, but what would be gained from this? Especially such a small increase as 350. From the dynos I have seen, power starts to drop at about 5500, and torque before that, so it seems like there would be no reason to go to the redline, although I have heard otherwise. What's the deal?

Should I go to the redline in each gear for maximum acceleration, or is there a sweet spot?

Also, have you tested the top speed with the governer raised? Is that the top speed, or what you deemed a safe top speed? Do you happen to know the top speed to redline?

Finally, does this tune take care of the stock ecu's tendency to freak out when boost is changed too drastically? I remember reading about another vender testing a product. The product (cant remember what it was, maybe a turbo kit or something) raised boost pressure, but when it raised a certain amount, the ecu freaked out and cut power. It would also freak when it didn't get enough boost. And, if it will accept more boost now than the stock ecu would allow, is this safe? Would that be an undertaking for a more experienced modder. Is the chance of detonation drastically increased? Basically any questions I could possibly ask about safely raising boost pressure while keeping it reliable.

Sorry for the barrage of questions, but I bet this post will help answer a lot of questions for a lot of people. Any info is greatly appreciated.

 

WITH YOUR TUNE HOW MUCH BOOST IS MADE ON 91 OCTANE?
THANKS

 

First of all, the R56 is NOT speed governed. It's factory top speed is right about 135-140 MPH. The car simply does not have enough power to overcome drag after that speed. I used some speed calculator a while back and came up with this:

With factory 195-55-16 tires, the R56 would reach 162 MPH at the factory redline in 6th gear IF it had the power to get there.

I dont know how important that info is to anybody in the States, as there is nowhere to really reach that speed safely.

With an Intake, JCW turbo inlet, and ALTA ECU on 93 octane I was able to reach 154 MPH on the Autobahn. Once again, I'd like to emphasize that there is NO speed governor, and yes my car is US spec.

 

Mini-Madness,

I have my car re-mapped so I am viewing this thread as someone who is not interested in getting your remap, just interested in what you are saying...

The 350rpm increase that you apply in particular.... I feel (and I think many others do) that the R56 Turbocharger runs out of steam from around 6000rpm upwards and begins to lose hp and tq and changing down to a lower gear develops more power at say 4500rpm than taking the higher gear all the way to redline.. So how does your 350rpm increase deal with this?
I am genuinly interested in this because I asked my tuner the exact same question about raising the rpm limiter and he said it simply wouldnt make any difference, by 6000rpm the stock turbo is already losing power and raising the limiter would just make things worse and there would be even less power at saying 6800rpm than there is at 6500rpm because of the way our turbo works, it develops all its power low down and runs out of steam at higher rpms?

Im not doubting your software at all I am just curious as its something I wanted done with my tune

 

http://www.miniusa.com/#/contactFaq/faq/vehicle-i

Scroll down until you see "What's the top speed of the MINI?" It's a little less than halfway down.

 

all US spec cars except a few, (Porshe, ferrrari, MBZ AMG, and other super cars) are governed to 155

 

i thought the r56 minis were at 149 ... ??
hmm
not like it matters to me much anyway. I enjoy getting 130's every now and then but it's RARE I'll hit late 140's .... haha