Seems like a manual steering option would be a great way to reduce some weight and eliminate some complexity and any worries associated with the PS pump fan, etc. Even an MCS is not heavy enough to warrant power assisted steering. Plus PS doesn't belong on a sports car anyway. I couldn't find any aftermarket kits. Does anyone know of any?

 

the miata crowd has been going through this for a few years. the pa cars can be converted to manual by either changing out the pa rack for a manual one or by simply disconnecting the hydraulic power to the pa rack. that gives a quicker, but heavier feel.

it's not a question of how much the car weighs, but how much weight is on the steering wheels and what is the mechanical advantage of the steering geometry.

someone here or on mini2 disconnected the power to a minis electrohydraulic pump and reported very heavy steering at low speed. this would be a quick way to test if using the pa rack in a manual mode would work. if it's ok, then you could remove the pump. i'm going to try this sometime.

if the pa rack is too heavy feeling and you replace it with a manual one with a different ratio, you'll end up with slower, but lighter steering.

 

The steering ratio for the MINI is one of the quickest on the market. Switching to non-powered would result in a very high effort system. The MINI's weight distribution is also not if favor of manual steering, with about 63% of the cars weight on the front axle. Furthermore, since the MINI is front drive, torque steer would be very prominent, practically ripping the wheel out of your hands during hard acceleration in all situations.

However much I agree with the idealism of manual steering, in the MINI's case, the negatives outweigh the positives.

Still interested? Good luck, and keep us posted,
Ryan

 

>>The steering ratio for the MINI is one of the quickest on the market. Switching to non-powered would result in a very high effort system. The MINI's weight distribution is also not if favor of manual steering, with about 63% of the cars weight on the front axle. Furthermore, since the MINI is front drive, torque steer would be very prominent, practically ripping the wheel out of your hands during hard acceleration in all situations.
>>
>>However much I agree with the idealism of manual steering, in the MINI's case, the negatives outweigh the positives.
>>
>>Still interested? Good luck, and keep us posted,
>>Ryan

Yeah. I posted this over on MINI2 to try to get a response from someone across the pond without American sensibilities when it comes to driving. I recall driving old Fiats, Toyotas, Lancias, and a couple of fwd Volkswagens that had manual steering and had no trouble despite the heavy feel and, in some cases, torque steer. I actually enjoy having to steer a car myself, but most Americans don't, thus there is probably no market for a manual steering rack over here.

 

I think you're mostly right about the American market. All my street-rods have/had manual racks, but all of my daily drivers have been power.

sidenote:
LOL, imagine an Escalade with manual steering, now THAT would be funny, seeing some 90 pound soccer mom lugging that thing around

 

I think the PS on the mini feels great and shouldnt be taken out, it would make it a lot harder to drive. The classic mustang guys have been ripping the PS out of their cars for a while now, the PS in the classic mustang actually makes the handling worse.

 

>>I think you're mostly right about the American market. All my street-rods have/had manual racks, but all of my daily drivers have been power.
>>
>>sidenote:
>>LOL, imagine an Escalade with manual steering, now THAT would be funny, seeing some 90 pound soccer mom lugging that thing around

LOL. She could not torque the wheel while talking on the cell phone and sipping a latte.

 

>>I think the PS on the mini feels great and shouldnt be taken out, it would make it a lot harder to drive. The classic mustang guys have been ripping the PS out of their cars for a while now, the PS in the classic mustang actually makes the handling worse.

I would doubt that PS could make a car handle worse (beyond the weight the equipment adds). Steering's relationship to handling has to do with geometry. Assisting the steering with power should not have an effect on the geometry. However, the classic 'Stang's PS probably just makes it so the driver can't feel the road, which is what all power-assisted steering basically does to some extent.

The weight on a Mustang's front wheels has got to be at least eqivalent to the weight on those of a MINI, so, torque-streer notwithstanding, if those people can turn their wheels at a stop, then a MINI driver should be able to do so. I wish some of the MINI racing crowd would chime in on this, since some of them are bound to have already nixed the PS.

If it helps, I do not expect to be able to talk on the cell phone and drink latte while trying to turn the wheel and have lower-primate-like upper body strength.

 

A couple of months ago I had a failure of the PS pump on a long trip. While car was drivable and not to bad at speed, at low speeds it was You could save about the same weight by replacing the battery with a small motorcycle battery or (on a non-MCS car) leaving the spare tire at home or ripping out the unused rear seats.

 

Does anyone agree that the power steering should be lightened a little? I'm all for a high level of steering feel, but it seems a little to heavy for me at low speeds.

Anyone know how I would go about adding some power assist? I don't want to mess with the ratio or anything, which is nice and quick, but a little more boost at low speeds would be nice.

Is this something the dealer can do? Or a tuner? What is involved with increasing boost level?

 

We were out at the track a couple of weeks ago and one of the Ex-Formula Ford drivers had his PS conk out. He said it was fine but felt a little too heavy to handle after a few laps. When he came into the pits he was really in a sweat. It was a weird problem as it was kicking on and off. I'm going to check with him today to find out if he has pinpointed the problem yet. I don't think it'd be fun driving on the street without it.

Amit

 

JEEZ OH PEEZ MY POWER STEERING BLEW A WEEK AGO WITH 70,000 ON THE ODOMETER AND IT KILLS, BUT THEN AFTER DRIVING THE CAR FOR A WEEK WITHOUT THE PUMP IT KICKED BACK ON AND WHAT A DIFFERENCE NOW THE PROBLEM IS I THINK THE STEERING IS TO LIGHT sorry for the cap locks just cught it!! but now it feels so light that i think it could use a little more grunt!! ive had to relern how to drive it cause im cutting into corners a little earlier!!:smile:

 

i agree, at least for short duration street driving. i wonder if there is a way to reduce the hydraulic flow, either by tweaking the pump current or using an m7 "device" in the circuit

 

 

Does anyone know what kind of weight could be lost with this? It seems that there are some good reasons to leave it as is, and if the weight reduction were minimal, all the more reason I suppose...

Slightly OT, but when I was browsing the racing forums over the weekend, I found a post stating that the xenon headlights for our MINIs outweigh the non-xenons by 15 pounds. Can someone validate that? If so, I find that to be a more plausible weight-reduction plan, at least for some of us... Thanks.

 

It is a couple pounds, but I doubt 15.


Well, maybe if you add up all the weight of the washers and the associated hoses and tank. The actual light assembly, incl. ballast, isn't that heavy.

 

in a pm, team m7 didn't like my comment above. my reply:

m7ers,

although i've been very critical of SOME m7 products and statements in the past, this wasn't one of them.

first, i don't have an opinion on that m7 device/stumble/ic valve thing. although ryephile and others have theory and data on one side, you've got real users on the other. i suspect there's some other variable both sides are missing.

but putting a restricter in the steering hydraulic flow path isn't crazy, at least at first glance! [edit and i do have a soh, hence the smileys!! ]

i'll also post what i just wrote you guys in that same forum.

while you're at it, why not an m7 gizmo to allow the steering boost adjustment some of us want?

 

Great idea, but would it make the steering "Heavier" or "lighter"? Where's Trippy?