New to MCO! Like the talks..

Minnie C (2003 MCS) is my wife's daily drive (hence the name) and my weekend toy! we have problems launching the car on steep hills. The RPMs are too slow to spin up to ingage the clutch without excessive clutching.

I am considering the Stage 2 drivetrain upgrade from MINI-Madness (Lightweight flywheel, short shifter and LSD). Anyone have any experience with the upgrade? Will it help the launching problem?

Also am interested in an air intake that gives me the most hp/$, thoughts?

Thanks
Jas

 

I also have a steep hill that I have to deal with only blocks from my house. The first thing I do after starting the car is turn the DSC off. That helps a lot. Also adding the pully mod and intake, (mostly the pully) will add some torque down low.
Dan

 

Jas, welcome to MCO! :smile:

You've discovered one of the basic flaws in the MCS...I experience this each and every time I leave my office (steep hill out of the parking lot onto a busy street). Many's the time I've almost stalled out...and always end up puttering out into traffic at about 4 mph with the traction control going full tilt killing power. Ugh. :evil:

Here's what to try before going the lighter flywheel/lsd approach (that's about a $2500 solution installed as you describe, right? ).

1) Turn off DSC. This also disables the power-sucking, over eager, horribly programmed, traction control. Will make a world of difference.

2) Make sure that you over-rev before launching. Many of us MCS owners have figured out this launch technique to overcome the 1500-2000rpm stumble and bog.

3) Try lighter wheels and tires. The 17" slites with runflats are real boat anchors. Switching to non-runflat tires will save you about 50lbs and many say that this helps performance tremendously.

4) The intake and pulley upgrade help performance...but probably not the sort of launch problems you're encountering.

Try just #1 (it's free) and let us know what you think. Good luck!

 

Turning off DSC doesn't help... unless you over-rev so much that you lose traction (quite unnecessary). Switching to lighter wheels and tires doesn't help at all (I dropped over 7 pounds per corner with RH EVO CP8R & Yoko AVS ES100 compared with stock 16" cast alloys and Dunlops). Just do what resourceful drivers have always done with anemic (e.g., MINI) engines:

1. Set the parking brake (even on modest slopes).

2. Shift into 1st gear with clutch depressed.

3. Rev to 1500, then release clutch and parking brake "as you apply throttle". Yeah, I've spent 3 weeks teaching my son how to do this! Feather both clutch and throttle judiciously as you gain momentum. Count no more than "1001, 1002, 1003" before you're rolling. More than that, and you're burning the clutch. Less than that, and you're probably stalling. It's simply not going to happen any faster. MINI may be a super car, but it's not a supercar. It's mini in so many ways... particularly torque off the line.

4. If you're operating AC, then count on another 1-2 seconds of bogging before anything interesting happens. If you're up against a good ol' Southern boy in a V-8 and 98-degree weather, just look the other way... 'cause you ain't got a chance.

5. Keep practicing. With a bit of experience, you can at least keep up with the soccer moms in their UAVs (Urban Assault Vehicles).

 

Have you ever driven a car w/ a light-weight flywheel? If not, you may want to do some research first:
-The Mini (& all current bmw manual cars) uses a dual-mass 20lb+ flywheel that is very well balanced, "loaded" & designed to provide the best blend of daily driveability and performance. The change from a dual to single mass F.wheel w/ app. 1/2 the weight & non of the anti-vibrational "Load" features of the OE FW creates many issues/problems that may not be critical to competetion cars but which MAY be problematic w/ a street driven cars.
1. Noise, rattle,"bucket of bolts" sound w/ the clutch disengaged. This noise WILL transfer into the cab, around-town driving will be loud(ish) & your car will sound like an old diesel Mercedes. Even at speed, the vibration nature & aural change will alter the Mini's character, making it a very different ride! This additional noise may be OK w/ you but MOST drivers of NEW cars will hate the racket (fine if you do a LOT of track driving.)
2. The flywheel is designed to help keep the car's aux. electrical system working at optimum, especially at idle you MAY experience electrical loss IF you are running several different systems at once (AC, sound system, power assisted steering etc.) The car can & will from time to time stall/die/give out due to the insufficent rotational mass of the lightweight flywheel.
3. Sudden drop-off of RPM's when de-accelerating: shifting will now required a different driving technique (faster, no time to linger between gears & more attentive shifting is required.) At times, w/ a LW. single-mass flywheel the car MAY stall due to rapid falling rotational mass. The RPMS will drop to or below the ideal 700 rpm idle. This may or may not require some ECU re-mapping to correct the fault.
4. True "Balance": Most aftermarket "high performance flywheels" are not balanced to any where near critical levels (Fidanza is a good example) and the resulting imbalance can VERY much affect the engine internals, causing among other things stress & shortened life. It is a general fact among race car engineers that most of these $400-600 flywheels are machined BELOW spec and lead to problem down the line. You wont' find them in serious race machines!!

Buyer beware: Do not install ANY non-OE flywheel in your car UNLESS you have driven one first. Failure to do this can create a royal pain in the *** & in the wallet.

 

To just get going *smoothly* up a steep hill you'd want a heavy flywheel. Since the flywheel acts as a sort of momentum resevoir, a heavier flywheel will allow the car to get going more smoothly. A super light flywheel would only aggrivate the problem. The light flywheel would help you accelerate up the hill faster.

 

jsun has provided you with a good, inexpensive solution. If you go the expensive route (lightened flywheel, LSD, etc.) not only will you be the envy of most MCS owners whose wallets or spouses won't allow us to pursue similar "fixes" you'll also join the "warranty be damned club" of us who have modified the engine / drivetrain.

Happy Trails and Motor On.

 

Thanks for that informative post marksmith. I did some further research around the net and sure enough your post seems to be right on the mark.

 

Tall gearing means having to slip the clutch more to get it rolling. Sorry, that's the facts and adding mods (other than much shorter gearing or much shorter tires) is not going to fix that.

 

From my experience, the S- Stock clutch can take one serious beating. On my 1/4 mile track days, I slip the clutch from 3-4k rpm, at the start and do not let the revs drop down, on a typical launch (this is the only way I have found of getting decent 60' times. Mine is still trucking after 32k miles with my very hard driving/power shifting/track obsession.

Let it slip, it will live.

_________________
<img src = "https://www.northamericanmotoring.co....jpg">
LqY MCS - Madness CAI, Magnaflow, Swaybar, Alta Pulley, 17" BBS RK, Yoko ES 100's.

 

Fidanza wheels are manufactured below spec and poorly balanced? Does everyone agree with this assesment?

 

I found that a 15% pulley and a Dinan intake did the trick.

 

Huh?

 

I found that a 15% pulley and a Dinan intake gave me enouigh extra "umph" over stock to make the car pull away from uphill starts with much greater ease. This was in Atlanta in the "power robbing" summer.

 

Here's your answer ^ Shorter tires would be ones off the classic mini 10".(but you'll have to ditch the brakes) Shorter gearing, not an option. I know, move to Houston,Tx.,(what are hills?)
The parking brake method helps if you have to stop on a steep hill & are not adept at slip-starts yet with these tall 1st gears. Practice & you will wonder why it was ever an issue in the 1st place.

 

Just get an automatic

 

Trade it in on a 2005, Shorter gears