Drivetrain (Cooper S) MINI Cooper S (R53) intakes, exhausts, pulleys, headers, throttle bodies, and any other modifications to the Cooper S drivetrain.

Drivetrain Need advice on mods... like every other newbie

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Old Mar 28, 2008 | 07:40 AM
  #51  
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the platform
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From: too far from Europe!
Originally Posted by NiKTaMeR
Thanks to everyone and a special thanks to bahama for telling us about his *manly* donation.



Here is my plan:

1) Get CAI (Dinan or DDM) , Pulley and belt
2) Find a great deal in marketplace on Header (OBX) and Exhaust (UCC,
Milltek - although a little loud or abrand new OBX) I don't like the one ball idea.
3) Try to catch Jan, end of April in NY

Things to add later on maybe in the summer maybe after:

-Supsension items, still unclear to me ... will post again in due time
-new wheels, already have non flat ultra performance summer tires.

That's about it

So thank you will be posting to show you guys the progress with my baby

NiK
Good plan!
This is the same route I have taken in the last calendar year.
The obx/milltek is a nice combo.The sound,in conjunction with cai is pretty intimidating(throw on gatorback belt w/pulley )"pour le coup de gras"-j'aime ca!
Jan tune -
 
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Old Mar 28, 2008 | 08:13 AM
  #52  
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OldRick
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You know, to get some useful commentary on this topic, you should define what you are looking for more than just "fun".

For example, if you are in Miami, handling improvements probably won't mean as much to you as straight-line acceleration, while if you are in the wilds of Oregon, you'd need precise handling and tires that stick both wet and dry.

What kind of driving do you want to optimize for? What sort of local roads? What sort of weather is typical there?

How willing are you to give up the niceties, such as ride comfort and levels of noise and vibration?

Bottom line is "what are you looking for?" Asking an overly broad question gets silly answers, like using 80% of your upgrade money for coil-overs to lower a city-driven car.

You are simply getting answers that reveal what different people think creates "fun", and that varies wildly.
 

Last edited by OldRick; Mar 28, 2008 at 08:15 AM.
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Old Mar 28, 2008 | 07:04 PM
  #53  
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From: SoCaL (Agoura Hills)
Originally Posted by k-huevo
Forget all this , go Sprint Booster and save for a performance head.


Or you could spend the same 400 on a custom tune that does the same thing, and remaps the ignition timing and fuel maps to actually gain some HP .
 
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Old Mar 28, 2008 | 08:22 PM
  #54  
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Sprint Booster is an fools-mod, suitable only for the ignorant. Move your foot faster, and get the same benefit, for free...
 

Last edited by OldRick; Mar 28, 2008 at 08:31 PM.
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Old Mar 29, 2008 | 01:27 AM
  #55  
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k-huevo
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From: Pipe Creek, Texas
rustyboy155, a custom tune does not provide the same effect, it is a different target, however, the Sprint Booster is very complimentary to a quality tune, not a substitute; the price is less than $400, read post #41.

OldRick, you’re harboring a misconception, no matter how fast your foot is, there will be a delay in throttle response with original accelerator signals.
 
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Old Mar 29, 2008 | 01:37 AM
  #56  
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From: SoCaL (Agoura Hills)
Originally Posted by k-huevo
rustyboy155, a custom tune does not provide the same effect, it is a different target, however, the Sprint Booster is very complimentary to a quality tune, not a substitute; the price is less than $400, read post #41.

OldRick, you’re harboring a misconception, no matter how fast your foot is, there will be a delay in throttle response with original accelerator signals.
All it does is amplify the signal going from the stock sender, for less than $20 at radio shack you could build something that does the exact same thing. I don't want my car to have 50% throttle input at 30% throttle, there's a reason you can modulate the stock throttle.

If your throttle response isn't multitudes better, whoever tuned your car has no clue what they're doing. You can reprogram the Drive By Wire with a tune. If the slow revs bother you that much stick a lightened flywheel in.
 
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Old Mar 29, 2008 | 01:52 AM
  #57  
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canyonking
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From: santa barbara, ca
there is no substitute for real Hp, i dont care who you are theres is absolutley no substitute. Once and for all, the sprint booster is a quick fix for people who dont really care about the true performance of a wonderful vehcile at all. There is no Hp or Trq gain AT ALL, its to impress your Ignorint friends and to take your girl firends for an ok ride, but to be race or track ready you need true Hp and Trq gains and theres no excuses
 
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Old Mar 29, 2008 | 01:57 AM
  #58  
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k-huevo
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From: Pipe Creek, Texas
rustyboy155, you are also misinformed, 50% accelerator position is still 50% throttle plate position in terms of how the SB works. I know if you were to install the SB on top of your tune, you would experience an improvement you would appreciate; it would not mean your tuner did not know what he was doing. Perhaps pedal percentages were manipulated in your tune, but the response can still be improved upon. There is a gain in control over modulation, not a loss.

canyonking, the context has been altered in this discussion, the OP was not interested in track use, but since it has been brought up, having more precision available for rev matching is beneficial, I’ve experienced it so I know it can transfer to competition use. This device is an enabler; not a substitute for tune, boost, displacement, or lightweight components, no one including myself has made any claims to that effect in this thread. Framed in the original context of this thread, the SB is a "fun" enabler.
 

Last edited by k-huevo; Mar 29, 2008 at 02:32 AM.
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Old Mar 29, 2008 | 09:29 AM
  #59  
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verveAbsolut
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From: Baton Rouge, LA
Originally Posted by k-huevo
rustyboy155, you are also misinformed, 50% accelerator position is still 50% throttle plate position in terms of how the SB works. I know if you were to install the SB on top of your tune, you would experience an improvement you would appreciate; it would not mean your tuner did not know what he was doing. Perhaps pedal percentages were manipulated in your tune, but the response can still be improved upon. There is a gain in control over modulation, not a loss.

canyonking, the context has been altered in this discussion, the OP was not interested in track use, but since it has been brought up, having more precision available for rev matching is beneficial, I’ve experienced it so I know it can transfer to competition use. This device is an enabler; not a substitute for tune, boost, displacement, or lightweight components, no one including myself has made any claims to that effect in this thread. Framed in the original context of this thread, the SB is a "fun" enabler.
So in essence then, the device increases the movement speed of the actuator responsible for the throttle body plate?

I would like to know more...as I said in the thread specifically on the topic of the Sprint Booster, I don't understand how such an electric piece can alter the operation speed of the actuator...but you are obviously getting results....I would like to be able to eat my words.

- Matt
 
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Old Mar 29, 2008 | 09:29 AM
  #60  
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From: SoCaL (Agoura Hills)
Originally Posted by k-huevo
rustyboy155, you are also misinformed, 50% accelerator position is still 50% throttle plate position in terms of how the SB works. I know if you were to install the SB on top of your tune, you would experience an improvement you would appreciate; it would not mean your tuner did not know what he was doing. Perhaps pedal percentages were manipulated in your tune, but the response can still be improved upon. There is a gain in control over modulation, not a loss.

canyonking, the context has been altered in this discussion, the OP was not interested in track use, but since it has been brought up, having more precision available for rev matching is beneficial, I’ve experienced it so I know it can transfer to competition use. This device is an enabler; not a substitute for tune, boost, displacement, or lightweight components, no one including myself has made any claims to that effect in this thread. Framed in the original context of this thread, the SB is a "fun" enabler.
For those interested in real world testing results rather than subjective opinions here is a technical write up by a Mercedes owner on the Sprint Booster. As you can see, it's nothing more than an overpriced voltage amplifier. It works (As I explained) by making the car think you're pushing the pedal down further than you actually are (Leaving the pedal completely dead after about 2/3rds depression).

As the writer explains, the effect can be duplicated by simply pushing the pedal down further, there is absolutely no difference in "response" except when the pedal is mashed to the floor. The only reason there is a difference here is because the real world time to depress the pedal is about .2 seconds.

Since the sprint booster "Fools" the car into thinking 2/3rds travel is pedal on the floor, the maximum "Throttle Open" position is reached at 2/3rds travel, thus time to max open is 2/3rds. This effect is only apparent if you are mashing the pedal to the floor (If you drive like that you truly have no clue how to smoothly ramp on power), in any other style of driving, you can simply push the pedal down faster.

So yes! The sprint booster reduces the time to fully open the throttle butterfly by about 33% when you're mashing it to the floor. Other than that it does absolutely nothing except dulling pedal feel. Note that the top 1/3rd of pedal travel is completely dead once you install the sprint booster (Signals are the same). The 33% "reduction" in time to full throttle should in theory decrease acceleration times by about .035 seconds.

If you guys want to waste 300 dollars on something anyone with a few hours and some limited electrical knowledge could make for under $25 in parts from radio shack, enjoy.

Here is the full technical write up.

http://bipesauto.com/sprintbooster
 

Last edited by Guest; Mar 29, 2008 at 09:34 AM.
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Old Mar 29, 2008 | 10:35 AM
  #61  
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k-huevo
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From: Pipe Creek, Texas
That linked file won’t load for me; it’s a shame because I’m fascinated with this device.

The top third of my accelerator pedal travel is not dead. I’ve performed a top speed evaluation and the only way to get there was complete depression of the pedal.
 
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Old Mar 29, 2008 | 11:25 AM
  #62  
verveAbsolut's Avatar
verveAbsolut
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From: Baton Rouge, LA
Originally Posted by rustyboy155
For those interested in real world testing results rather than subjective opinions here is a technical write up by a Mercedes owner on the Sprint Booster. As you can see, it's nothing more than an overpriced voltage amplifier. It works (As I explained) by making the car think you're pushing the pedal down further than you actually are (Leaving the pedal completely dead after about 2/3rds depression).

As the writer explains, the effect can be duplicated by simply pushing the pedal down further, there is absolutely no difference in "response" except when the pedal is mashed to the floor. The only reason there is a difference here is because the real world time to depress the pedal is about .2 seconds.

Since the sprint booster "Fools" the car into thinking 2/3rds travel is pedal on the floor, the maximum "Throttle Open" position is reached at 2/3rds travel, thus time to max open is 2/3rds. This effect is only apparent if you are mashing the pedal to the floor (If you drive like that you truly have no clue how to smoothly ramp on power), in any other style of driving, you can simply push the pedal down faster.

So yes! The sprint booster reduces the time to fully open the throttle butterfly by about 33% when you're mashing it to the floor. Other than that it does absolutely nothing except dulling pedal feel. Note that the top 1/3rd of pedal travel is completely dead once you install the sprint booster (Signals are the same). The 33% "reduction" in time to full throttle should in theory decrease acceleration times by about .035 seconds.

If you guys want to waste 300 dollars on something anyone with a few hours and some limited electrical knowledge could make for under $25 in parts from radio shack, enjoy.

Here is the full technical write up.

http://bipesauto.com/sprintbooster
Good, good find. Puts to rest my doubts about criticisms I had for this product.

- Matt
 
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Old Mar 29, 2008 | 01:51 PM
  #63  
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k-huevo
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From: Pipe Creek, Texas
The paper provides more support for it does what it says it does. There are a few flaws from an empirical analysis standpoint, but not bad. It is missing manual transmission examples and slower throttle inputs.

As stated much information about how the OEM program goes about its business is omitted and in our case no info is provided about the MINI. Signals from multiple sensors are used to initiate output and there is feedback from each during operations, more areas of power output may be affected by a singular signal (pedal position sensor) than throttle plate position alone, given the interactivity of our engine management system.

My contentions with the findings are: upper third dead pedal this is not the case on my vehicle, and the effect can be duplicated by quick foot movements.

Cost/worth is relative, it something that can be utilized at any rpm, and load. It offers a positive change for the price no other bolt on can provide.
 
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Old Mar 30, 2008 | 06:53 PM
  #64  
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From: SoCaL (Agoura Hills)
Originally Posted by k-huevo
The paper provides more support for it does what it says it does. There are a few flaws from an empirical analysis standpoint, but not bad. It is missing manual transmission examples and slower throttle inputs.

As stated much information about how the OEM program goes about its business is omitted and in our case no info is provided about the MINI. Signals from multiple sensors are used to initiate output and there is feedback from each during operations, more areas of power output may be affected by a singular signal (pedal position sensor) than throttle plate position alone, given the interactivity of our engine management system.

My contentions with the findings are: upper third dead pedal this is not the case on my vehicle, and the effect can be duplicated by quick foot movements.

Cost/worth is relative, it something that can be utilized at any rpm, and load. It offers a positive change for the price no other bolt on can provide.
My argument isn't that it doesn't do anything (I understand drive by wire throttle input and how it works) my argument is that you can build one of these yourself for almost nothing. It's just a signal amplifier.
 
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Old Mar 30, 2008 | 06:54 PM
  #65  
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From: SoCaL (Agoura Hills)
Originally Posted by verveAbsolut
Good, good find. Puts to rest my doubts about criticisms I had for this product.

- Matt
np
 
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