Drivetrain Blew motor up!!! AGAIN!!!
I hope you guys really like your mechanics. I sounds to me like you'll get to spend plenty of time with them. I just looked at the sales brochure for my car and the specs page states the torque peaks on the MC @ 4500rpm and the MCS @ 4000 rpm (this would explain the need for the 6 spd gearbox in the MCS). Horse power peaks @ 6000 rpms for both. The dyno charts I've seen for modded cars go slightly higher, but I have always found that the torque peak was far more useful than the horsepower peak for forward momentum on any car. By the sound of it I still be enjoying my car long after yours becomes a memory.
4th Gear
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 499
Likes: 0
From: Baton Rouge, LA
I hope you guys really like your mechanics. I sounds to me like you'll get to spend plenty of time with them. I just looked at the sales brochure for my car and the specs page states the torque peaks on the MC @ 4500rpm and the MCS @ 4000 rpm (this would explain the need for the 6 spd gearbox in the MCS). Horse power peaks @ 6000 rpms for both. The dyno charts I've seen for modded cars go slightly higher, but I have always found that the torque peak was far more useful than the horsepower peak for forward momentum on any car. By the sound of it I still be enjoying my car long after yours becomes a memory.
Additionally, the redline (or around it) is there for a reason: everything under it is smooth sailing. The company engineers know what they are doing by setting tolerances and limits. They say it can run at ~6800RPM and under no problem...the redline would be lower if they meant otherwise.
And people like Tuls and many others have proven our cars are overbuilt with their high-RPM excursions.
- Mat
Last edited by verveAbsolut; Jan 26, 2008 at 11:27 AM. Reason: Poor spelling.
For the shift points,
drag drops out, the speed of the car is the same before and after the shift point. IT just lowers the whole thrust curve vs speed. To find top speed, you can actually plot the thrust curve and aero drag, and when the cross, the car won't go any faster.
You can choose to do the thrust curve with or without drag, it won't change the shiftpoints.
Showing why is an excursize left to the students!
Matt
And humcmcel, it's all about what floats your boat. If you want to have a car that lasts forever, baby it and all the rest of the stuff. If you want to race around a track and get as low a lap time as you can, the car won't be hitting 200k miles, that's for sure. But I, like others, don't really understand what your point is. Are you advocating we all treat cars like you do? We all drive like you do? and we all get our satisfaction from cars like you do? If so that's pretty arrogent. If not, then the point that modding for more power and driving at higher average revs or whatever leads to a shorter car life is what I'd call freakin obvious. But don't you at least allow us the right to choose how to use our cars as we see fit?
You can choose to do the thrust curve with or without drag, it won't change the shiftpoints.
Showing why is an excursize left to the students!
Matt
And humcmcel, it's all about what floats your boat. If you want to have a car that lasts forever, baby it and all the rest of the stuff. If you want to race around a track and get as low a lap time as you can, the car won't be hitting 200k miles, that's for sure. But I, like others, don't really understand what your point is. Are you advocating we all treat cars like you do? We all drive like you do? and we all get our satisfaction from cars like you do? If so that's pretty arrogent. If not, then the point that modding for more power and driving at higher average revs or whatever leads to a shorter car life is what I'd call freakin obvious. But don't you at least allow us the right to choose how to use our cars as we see fit?
Last edited by Dr Obnxs; Jan 26, 2008 at 12:39 PM.
drag drops out, the speed of the car is the same before and after the shift point. IT just lowers the whole thrust curve vs speed. To find top speed, you can actually plot the thrust curve and aero drag, and when the cross, the car won't go any faster.
You can choose to do the thrust curve with or without drag, it won't change the shiftpoints.
Showing why is an excursize left to the students!
Matt
And humcmcel, it's all about what floats your boat. If you want to have a car that lasts forever, baby it and all the rest of the stuff. If you want to race around a track and get as low a lap time as you can, the car won't be hitting 200k miles, that's for sure. But I, like others, don't really understand what your point is. Are you advocating we all treat cars like you do? We all drive like you do? and we all get our satisfaction from cars like you do? If so that's pretty arrogent. If not, then the point that modding for more power and driving at higher average revs or whatever leads to a shorter car life is what I'd call freakin obvious. But don't you at least allow us the right to choose how to use our cars as we see fit?
You can choose to do the thrust curve with or without drag, it won't change the shiftpoints.
Showing why is an excursize left to the students!
Matt
And humcmcel, it's all about what floats your boat. If you want to have a car that lasts forever, baby it and all the rest of the stuff. If you want to race around a track and get as low a lap time as you can, the car won't be hitting 200k miles, that's for sure. But I, like others, don't really understand what your point is. Are you advocating we all treat cars like you do? We all drive like you do? and we all get our satisfaction from cars like you do? If so that's pretty arrogent. If not, then the point that modding for more power and driving at higher average revs or whatever leads to a shorter car life is what I'd call freakin obvious. But don't you at least allow us the right to choose how to use our cars as we see fit?
I hope you guys really like your mechanics. I sounds to me like you'll get to spend plenty of time with them. I just looked at the sales brochure for my car and the specs page states the torque peaks on the MC @ 4500rpm and the MCS @ 4000 rpm (this would explain the need for the 6 spd gearbox in the MCS). Horse power peaks @ 6000 rpms for both. The dyno charts I've seen for modded cars go slightly higher, but I have always found that the torque peak was far more useful than the horsepower peak for forward momentum on any car. By the sound of it I still be enjoying my car long after yours becomes a memory.
4th Gear
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 309
Likes: 1
And humcmcel, it's all about what floats your boat. If you want to have a car that lasts forever, baby it and all the rest of the stuff. If you want to race around a track and get as low a lap time as you can, the car won't be hitting 200k miles, that's for sure. But I, like others, don't really understand what your point is. Are you advocating we all treat cars like you do? We all drive like you do? and we all get our satisfaction from cars like you do? If so that's pretty arrogent. If not, then the point that modding for more power and driving at higher average revs or whatever leads to a shorter car life is what I'd call freakin obvious. But don't you at least allow us the right to choose how to use our cars as we see fit?
It is about what floats your boat. Modding these cars is a given and should only be limited by the depth of your wallet. If your thing is about finding the limits of the car so be it, just don't be suprised when you find it... apparently 7200 rpms was the limit on the engine that started this thread.
reading > humcmcel
Let's all ease back and send good thoughts to Mario and his rebuild.
Some push hard and others short shift. Maybe we should take a look at a torn down babied/short shifted motors/boxes(gobs of carbon build-up in combustion chambers???) and compare it to Longboards or SpiderXs or Tuls. Then we'll all see the difference!
Jeremy
Some push hard and others short shift. Maybe we should take a look at a torn down babied/short shifted motors/boxes(gobs of carbon build-up in combustion chambers???) and compare it to Longboards or SpiderXs or Tuls. Then we'll all see the difference!
Jeremy
It is about what floats your boat. Modding these cars is a given and should only be limited by the depth of your wallet. If your thing is about finding the limits of the car so be it, just don't be suprised when you find it... apparently 7200 rpms was the limit on the engine that started this thread.
Jeremy
I hope you guys really like your mechanics. I sounds to me like you'll get to spend plenty of time with them. I just looked at the sales brochure for my car and the specs page states the torque peaks on the MC @ 4500rpm and the MCS @ 4000 rpm (this would explain the need for the 6 spd gearbox in the MCS). Horse power peaks @ 6000 rpms for both. The dyno charts I've seen for modded cars go slightly higher, but I have always found that the torque peak was far more useful than the horsepower peak for forward momentum on any car. By the sound of it I still be enjoying my car long after yours becomes a memory.
Now with the Rotrex the TQ peaks at around 6800. The difference with the Rotrex is that it never goes flat. The TQ curve claims like a HP curve which is very addictive to drive. Now even better to spin high. Funner as well.
Either way the TQ is what gets you going and the HP is what keeps you going.
Oh ya, I really like my mechanic (Hi Danny) and if it breaks it breaks. The amount of cars spinning way past 7k is growing weekly yet cars aren't breaking. If you are looking to drive your mini to 200k then don't mod it. Pushing the limits means from time to time someone will break. So what, just fix it and make it faster
.Longboard
uh... drool...
. so the lesson is- if you fall, stand right back up and keep on going. fall again, then stand back up and get a walking stick with a rotex sc.
. so the lesson is- if you fall, stand right back up and keep on going. fall again, then stand back up and get a walking stick with a rotex sc.
Last edited by crazyaboutmini; Jan 26, 2008 at 08:16 PM.
This may be a surprise
Matt
Turbius Maximus
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,416
Likes: 0
From: Infinity and beyond
Hey guys... am I lost... I thought this was the Cooper S modifications section of the forum... no?
wierd...
oh and I am pretty sure GP raises the Rev limiter... like 7100... IT'S MADNESS!
wierd...
oh and I am pretty sure GP raises the Rev limiter... like 7100... IT'S MADNESS!
Last edited by Tüls; Jan 27, 2008 at 09:08 AM.
4th Gear
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 585
Likes: 0
From: Somewhere that no longer exists
i have no idea where my redline is in my 06 cooper, but i certainly know that the rev limit is at 7400. And i see it quite a bit, on and off the street ( i have a habbit of getting on the highway in second hear, hahah)
5th Gear
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 727
Likes: 0
Minis weren't built to be driven under 6500 rpms and be boring. If you want a car that you want to drive pretty and nice, get a SUV or a Toyota Corolla.
I hate it when people go out and buy Ferraris and Porsches and drive them like SUV and or a station wagon. These cars are built to drive hard and fast, if you don' believe me, take a trip to Italy or Germany. Mini is just the small version of those other faster and bigger cars.
Dr.O,,,,, please ignor my ignorance with this question, but by the shifting chart you provided earlier, should I or anyone else reading it come to a conclusion that shifting above those rpms don't necessarily give you more power/make your go faster? Which then one should ask the question of why would anyone raise the red line rev limiter to over 7k then?
4th Gear
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 585
Likes: 0
From: Somewhere that no longer exists
most guys raising their rev limit has more power and torque than the stock engine, which means their shift points are different. The higher you rev an engine, the more power it makes. If it can of course, revving a stock doesnt make more power, but with the right mods, its certainly does.
[QUOTE=Tüls;2004700]Hey guys... am I lost... I thought this was the Cooper S modifications section of the forum... no?
wierd...
I guess you could consider a blown engine a 'modification' as it changes the way the car performs pretty dramatically.
wierd...
I guess you could consider a blown engine a 'modification' as it changes the way the car performs pretty dramatically.
Turbius Maximus
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,416
Likes: 0
From: Infinity and beyond
lol nice
I was actually making a joke based apon some of the subject matter being discussed
I was actually making a joke based apon some of the subject matter being discussed
Last edited by Tüls; Jan 27, 2008 at 03:23 PM.
Thrust charts...
Dr.O,,,,, please ignor my ignorance with this question, but by the shifting chart you provided earlier, should I or anyone else reading it come to a conclusion that shifting above those rpms don't necessarily give you more power/make your go faster? Which then one should ask the question of why would anyone raise the red line rev limiter to over 7k then?
Matt
Caffeine Junkie
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 444
Likes: 0
From: Montgomery Village, MD
Being a vintage Vespa enthusiast, I learned the hard way that any time you start messing around with modifications to the factory setup, you take your chances. Sometimes they work well, sometimes they turn into a black hole.
It's not usually any one modification that does you in, but rather a combination of modifications that ultimately add up to a blown engine. The MINI was designed to a price-point, no doubt, but they simply were not intended to pump 200+ HP out of a 1.6 liter engine.
It's not usually any one modification that does you in, but rather a combination of modifications that ultimately add up to a blown engine. The MINI was designed to a price-point, no doubt, but they simply were not intended to pump 200+ HP out of a 1.6 liter engine.
After I post on the Drivetrain modifications forum that mods in general are a bad idea, I'm going to go to the R52 forum and tell them that cabrios are bad ideas, and then I'm gonna go to the 2nd Gen forum and explain why the R56 is an insult to MINIs, and then I might go to regional forums and tell people in the South East - Florida forum that their state is prone to hurricanes. 
