In looking at the scoop area on my MCSa, I see very little room for air to actually get to the (stock) IC; maybe only 1/2 inch of unobstructed height. Seems like there may be room for improvement. Can any of you offer your experiences with aftermarket scoops? I'm looking for something with some additional space on the upper side of the opening. I know I could adjust the latches to raise the bonnet a bit, but then I end up with a big gap between bumper and bonnet.
TIA

 

 

Yep, the higher IC thing is exactly the problem. Phil has done some excellent pioneering R&D on airflow management, just not on an A/T car. Hoping others have been down this path already and can offer a quick solution.

 

after all, real men buy manuals!

But for street work a scoop does help get more air in there. On TonyBs MCS (not auto) we found that the M7 Extreme scoop was about as effective at lowering IATs as a GRS intercooler.

I think that if you're planning on doing this, the best bet will be to take the home grown solution that you like the best and modify it for your needs.

Another thought would be to grind down the front IC mounting bosses to get the front edge of thie IC a little lower. Dont' think you can get 1/2 inch but a quarter inch shouldn't be too hard.

Matt

 

This post should be titled Dr. Phil's Greatest Hits Vol. 1

 

You know, when it's all put together like that, maybe I should include this in my CV. I recon I could get away with calling them "peer reviewed publications" also, as more people read my stuff here than have read my entire pub list from my academic career!
I remember a NAMer bought an Alta diverter and put it on his stock IC and it really bashed his bonnet--now I understand why. It must have been an automatic! I never could figure out why Autos were any different, but it must be that the engine sits higher. Bummer.
Solutions? W2A, a G45 angle-draft IC, or remove the stock diverter on the bonnet at the very least, then modify an Alta, or make your own seal/gasket that fits an Autotrans.

cheers,

 

You're really pushing that idea, arentcha?

I've missed those numbers on the m7 extreme, would be extremely interested in a link (if it's not one of those already linked to. Perusing as I type..). I'm desperate to improve stock intercooler efficiency.

ed: And what the heck is the performance dif. between the extreme and ram?

 

but I have too many posts to find it easily.....

But for improving the stock IC, you want a scoop of some sort, and there's a thread somewhere on really doings stuff to the stocker with insulation and a home built diverter that really helps out.....

PM me your e-mail and I'll send you some interresting reading!

One thing to consider is a thermal dispersant coating (creates micro roughness on the surfaces for improved heat transfer). It only gives you about 2-3 deg C cooler, but it's not much money..... www.cradin.com I do it to every IC I've used for any length of time.

Matt

Matt

 

Here is a great one. Search for thread titled:
"How to get 80% thermal efficiency from the stock IC & scoop"

by inimini (I think)

 

 

Matt, is there enough flex in the couplers to allow for angling the I/C? This sounds interesting but I'm worried about boots popping off under boost.

Oh, and "real men" with wives and daughters who don't drive stick, sometimes have to make compromises.

Good stuff, folks! Thanks for the input. (Don't stop!)

Also, any reason an Alta diverter couldn't be ground down on the top edge to make it fit?

 

and you know what it is! But I think it should work pretty well.

Matt

 

No, but it's pretty heavy guage steel so would take some work. You might just make your own so you can extend the seals forward.

 

This is what I have been playing with.

IC: FORGE
Background: if you look back at historical posts a critizism was that they sit up rather high.

A local Forge vendor (Minspeed) asked me what I would change about it. So I had them angle the IC (Low infront/high in back). The objective here was to enhance the exit space underneath. All hood materials had to be removed.

I then had this scoop made up, the objective was to create more of a funnel effect. The side pic shows how the scoop tapers towards the rear. The thought process was that this will pressurize the air above the IC sooner or faster thus going thru the IC sooner/faster. It also eliminates dealing with seal leakage.

As you can see it is just tack welded for now, but once I confirm that there are no rubbing issues I will have it welded up.

I don't have tools to produce discussable data but I am finding noticeable differences between left/right horn to the touch. I am also finding that the scoop itself is cool to the touch.

Any way it was fun to make.

 

Very interesting idea Bart...more pics please...

 

Sid, sent them via email - can't up load anymore to my gallery. If anyone else wants to see some more pics - just PM me.



Little more verbage

a) This sucker sits really low infront - it required a little grinding (like the GTT IC requires).
b) The back sits up as high as possible, you can really slide your hand underneath from the back.
c) The IC floats using heavy duty boots.
d) The IC is very nicely made - Forge makes nice stuff.
e) As you can see the scoop is welded to the IC - it would be nice if it was removeable.
f) While I'm surprised as to how cool the scoop is to the touch, cooler than the right horn a non heat absorbtion material would be neat.

The focus again was air pressurization. At high speeds, I believe all ICs are working well. This is an attempt to get more air thru (and out) the IC at lesser speeds (i.e. sooner). Trying to make a horizontal IC act more like a vertical IC by dumping heat soak sooner.

I finally found a misting nozzle that works well with the rear windshield pump producing a really fine mist so I will be adding that shortly.

 

Very nice job Bart! I sure hope you don't have to fish sparrows out of there...

 

even with stiff boots. A big pot hole and youi miight dent your hood. Make a couple sheet metal brackets that go from the original IC support studs up to the boot bolts. That will fix the front of the IC better. I'd done front and rear when I had a DFIC. Not to hard to make at all.

Matt

 

Point taken - The IC has tabs to connect to the front original supports. Unfortunately they are not located correctly. If Forge/Minspeed decide to make this piece, I would correct.

Just so you know the scoop clears the hood by 1/4" appr.

 

Well if my theory is correct it should work like an extrusion press on that sparrow. And if my hood vents work correctly, I will need to turn my windshield wipers on to de-sparrow.

If I can get carbonized excited about this then perhaps he will build me a carbon fiber scoop which would be really cool.

 

I ordered a M7 Ram because the M7 people said that there was no performance difference between the Ram and the Extreme.However the Extreme is the one to to get if someone wanted a more aggresive look . I shimed the scoop up about an 1/8", I would have went more to line up the bottom of the scoop to the edge of the IC ,but it started looking funny. Even with the scoop down all the way there was air leakage.It should have a foam rubber seal between the hood and the scoop. I made a thin flexible diverter on the bottom edge to bridge the gap between the scoop and the classic Alta IC . The Classic Alta's diverter seals needed shimming , they were not even close to the hood.

 

Bart: Very nice piece! How is the diverter sealed to the scoop when the bonnet is closed? Do you run an engine damper to reduce engine movement, thereby reducing the chance the IC/diverter will hit the bonnet and dent?

cheers, and great work!!

 

I did run a strip of foam to seal between hood and the scoop - the space is about 1/4". Since the engine will move forward/back, I did round off / curve the scoop sides (see side pic) but a engine dampner would'nt be a bad idea.

This is the primary reason it is just tac welded - i.e. adjustments I measure about 1,000 times and made a cardboard template - I wanted the opening as big as possible. My son is driving around this week so on Friday, I will look for dents .

what do you think of the pressurization concept ?

 

hmmm.....

 

naw stay with the metal it'll pull more heat away . looks great . this is what i want ; only i want it to protrude thru the hood ,ala shaker .