Well if Osmar wants to Outlaw racing all you'll have is dyno's to race at least Churces have got two so you can have them side by side

 

if you haven't noticed 1/4mi racing is almost dead here

if you are looking to make a living selling drag racing parts for Mini's.... expect a very short lifespan in the business

btw...... who and where is Osmar running for office?

 

Nah, I'm not a one trick/track pony like you

We go drag racing, road racing, tunnel runs, dyno shootouts and drop the kids to school.

Only street parts are worth selling, as you found out with your best selling products the street cam and street header, I bet you wish it was your idea

 

Paul, the 1.15 figure was for a Dyno here in TX that recently had a software change to make it read more like some of the other dynos in the area. By checking with the shop and checking cars that were known from other dynos it was determined that for those that wanted to chase the #'s the readings were off by about 12-15%. However, it was stated again and again that the top numbers mean little, the delta was more important along with the changes below the curve, so to speak. As the promoter for the event I can state that after test drives not a single person was disappointed in the results. Payment was not asked for until each had a test drive to make sure they were happy.

How many times do we all need to stand up and scream from atop the tool box that comparing dyno results from one dyno to another in different locales will only serve to muddy the waters. I'm also not convinced that 1/4 mile times and trap speeds are the answer either. I for one, suck at drag racing, my shifter is balky if I try to shift to fast, hence my times and speeds will reflect that. I also have no desire to run 1/4 miles. If I want to beat on the car I'd much rather turn left and right.

 

I understand exactly where you coming from Nate, were the other dynos in the area wheel dynos?

Dont worry I suck at road racing and still trying to get to grips with it, but I d love it and enjoy it and learning new things, not saying you would learn new things at the drag strip, but you never know.

I truly love my Mini because it isn't a one trick pony,and I hope next year I can break in the 10s and still go round a road as fast as I dare but not have those damn Porsches and Zondas come past me on the straights.

P.S where is your road racing reports, I miss them.

 

Most of the other dynos in the area are setup for mega HP cars, big 500 - 600+ vettes, mustangs, vipers and the like. They don't scale as well with these lowly 200HP MINIs

You obviously missed my last one from last weekend...It's in the proper DE forum.

 

Thats not good Nate, I'm so glad I didn't buy one in 2006 if they cant provide accurate readings from 100hp at the hubs upwards.

It doesn't give you a whole heap of trust in a dynapack reading thats for sure, if you have to x 1.15 in texas and Churches owner says you should x .925 on his older dynapack.

This doesn't reflect on what Jan does or acheives, he can only do what he does with the tool that is available to him and can only show the dyno plots that the machine produces, after all a dyno is just a big tool you cant fit in your tool chest.

 

Ya read that the wrong way Paul. The other dynos around town are mostly Mustangs and are set up for high HP cars where if the scales jump 5 or 10 between points it's not a big deal. The Dynapack has better resolution then the Mustangs do. This shop had their software mimic whats going on around town to be more in line with what others read.

Heck, last year I had the car dynoed at 4 different shops over the course of 2 days and with similar weather saw differences as much as 20HP between the highest and lowest reading ones. Just goes to show you that want to use the same one again and again to get the best results. We all know you are only looking at the before and after changes on the same dyno. Who cares if it reads 5% high or 12% low so long as it is consistently like that.

 

it's amazing the misinformation that gets posted on the internet from rumors

 

All they had to do was re-educate the locals that there's is a hub dyno and Mustangs are wheel.

Wow did you write a report on that, I cant remember it (old age) but I think that probably ends any debate, that you conducted a scientific test where the high and low is 20hp / 9% out, so saying that you have the most powerful blah blah on a dyno has to have some small print stating on that particular dyno.

Its a pity after those 4 test that you didn't take it to the strip and weigh it, I wonder which one would of been close to the formula?

Unfortunatley the educated ones understand this, I think we need to construct a thread / sticky written by your goodself so the normal guy who doesn't undersand engines/dynos can read it before going to the dyno.

That way the newbies will know to dyno it when stock so they have a baseline to work with, also it would probably be a good idea to have a list of NAM approved dyno centers who understand how to dyno a Mini properly, Jan must have a good list of people he's educated over the last couple of years.

As if you haven't got enough on your plate, glad you and the car came out okay.

 

Yeah you should see the e-mails I get forwarded from customers from certain tooners, there even more amazing

 

did someone say TOONR? hey now, i don't spread roomers! haha

 

I realize I'm a couple days late, but here is the link to my chart
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...97#post2000997
post #561 about halfway down the page

 

Cheers fullcollapse40, I guess there's a lot off people who are envious and chasing that number on Helix now. What year is your car and what engine mod spec is it.

 

OK Paul, one last chance to make sense of this. The guy you were talking to above was tuned at 199whp on a Dynapak in Detroit. Same day, same dyno a car with a head/cam/exhaust made 253 which is consistent with what the combo gets around the country.

You claim that the Dynapaks read low (in bhp) by your reverse engineering and estimations/calculations in other threads, but you the guy with the 199whp dyno graph(which you say is bhp) is estimated with your formula at 250 on the drag strip based upon his traps. What gives?

By the way, there are piles of timeslips from Churches because most folks who are winning races and setting speed records in Bonneville and such use the place. Hell, when I was there a few months ago Oscar Jackson was walking around looking at the cars making runs, including mine. My guess would be that guys of his stature wouldn't be there and/or using the place if it wasn't top notch. Maybe you know more about dyno tuning than the big tuners around the US?

By the way, Dan who works at Churches, has a high hp Honda that has dozens of runs down strips in the area. Guess what, his times and traps are all over the board because the car can spin at will. Also, the guys running high-hp front wheel drive cars are sometimes limiting power in the lower gears to prevent wheel spin. How about the guys running nitrous in the higher gears? All of these things lead to inconsistencies in your calc's(but you seem to keep changing them to suit the situation) and make them hard to believe.

For all of the banter about comparing the numbers and the trap speeds, please clear up the 199 and 253 hp cars on the same dyno, and the 199 running the 13.892 @ 99.89mph @ 2610lbs. without driver. If you stick by your calculation, then the 253 car is well into the 300's at the crank.

 

http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-ar...icle_id=723885

While Shawn and I were busy checking out Honda's new FCX Clarity at the LA Auto Show, Oscar was actually tuning the S2000 at Shawn's shop in Wilmington, Church Automotive Testing. With the high-boost configuration they were testing, the car put down 387whp on Church's Dynapack dynamometer. On Skunk2's SuperFlow chassis dynamometer with the test car's 18" wheels spinning the drums, this figure translated to 355.7hp and 236.6 lb-ft at the wheels


Its quite intresting when you read all the threads on different car forums regarding Churches Dynapack, there is also a lot of sensible comments similar to what Gnatster has pointed out as well eventually on them.

But is it fair for Texas guys to have a low reading resuts with the same parts? It doesn't matter because they'll have the same performance as you have.

Unfortunatley thats the sad thing about dyno racing, it doesn't carry a lot of weight.

But if you're happy thats all that matters

 

congrats on dodging the question again

 

Sorry customer turned up, trying to suss out this header vibration thing, Ill answer the best I can later tonight.

But you're more than welcome to fill in for me between then and explain how a dynapack calculates the hp / trq and why machines can read differntly

 

What I am specifically asking is your calculation in relation to one dyno and two cars on the same day. The dyno reads in line with the averages around the country for similar parts combos. Your calculation is 20% off or more, showing the dyno reading low according to your "precise formula". Please explain.

 

Those figures as quoted are Flywheel hp (bhp) in the formula, not hub horsepower (axle horsepower as Dynapack call it now) what you're seeing at Churches, or if you went to Skunks Superflow that would be whp wheel horsepower

 

One more time, what are your calculations for bhp to hub hp to whp?

According to your post above, there is 25% difference from that dyno to whp. So the combo that made 253 on that dyno is at 316bhp, correct?

 

Big Howe as I said earlier I haven't got time at the moment to write a detailed explanation.

So stop giving it the "One more time" treat me as you expected to be treated yourself.

I can start asking loads of questions myself, but I'm not hear to stir the pot, but if you or Jan want to me I dont have a problem with that.

 

this isn't "Burger King"... you can't have it your way....

it's simple really.... your calculations are wrong
a 199whp car by your calculations can't happen to run 13.8sec
on that same dyno a car put down 253whp with my parts on it
whoa... what would this one run? Same dyno , same day......
world record.... right Paul?

For the record Oscar Jackson invited Longboard and myself to use their superflow when we were finishing up the first version of the Rotrex.
The car pulled 250whp there
I went to Church's the next week with the same tune.... 252whp and then we started tuning from there.....

over numerous changes to the Rotrex kit we then got it to 299whp

 

Knowing how organised you are you'll have both dyno sheets posted on here before I get home.

 

I'm sorry to waste your time Paul asking about your calculations. I just wanted to make sure everyone was clear where the numbers were coming from and how your formulas work.
From my point of view this started with you throwing rocks about how the US dyno numbers were wrong and we must go to the track to back up our hp numbers. If you wish to concede your position and walk away at this point, that's your prerogative.