About 2 weeks ago I went out and bought some waxes and Turtle Wax ICE, as well as a Megs claybar kit. I spent the whole day detailing my car- and it looked great!

Then I told Heather what I did, and apparently I put the products on backwards. (I'm a detailing newb). I put them on in this order-

1. glaze
2. long-term wax
3. ICE (synthetic)

I SHOULD have put the synthetic wax on first rather than last. I did notice that it was becoming difficult to get the ICE to rub in. So the day after I do all of this work, I check out the NAM detailing forum for the first time (stupid idea). I realized that the Prima stuff would turn out much better than what I had done- so I bought Swirl, Epic, and Hydro. The shipment is arriving today. I want to get a proper job done on my car and to get off the odd-job I have on there now. But I don't want to clay the whole car again! How do I get this brew off of there with not too much work. (I'm not lazy, but it's quite frustrating to know you screwed up!) Any advice would be appreciated!

 

I don't suppose you ordered Amigo?

 

Nope, I didn't order Amigo. Should I have- what would that do for me?

 

Amigo is a polish like Swirl, but Amigo is less abrasive and has fillers. Swirl can leave a slight hazing due to its abbrasive-ness, you would have to follow with another (less-abbrasive) polish to remove that hazing, which is where Amigo would come in. You can more then likly get away without it, but if it does haze you will need to use another polish before you wax.

 

Don'rt sweat it - you didn't damage anything, but you WILL need to clay the car to get the old stuff off or a proper job I'm afraid...

First wash the car - don't bother with Dawn since the synthetic wax won't dissolve and juast use whatever car wash shampoo you like (not Mystique, as it leaves a shiny coating that you'll be stripping off in the next step).

Then, re-clay the car. The clay should strip off the majority of the old wax. the good news is that if you just did this a while back then you should only have to make a few passes on each spot - all you're doing is stripping off a light coating of synthetic wax, and honestly, ICE is pretty short-lived compared to Epic, so lots of it is probably already MIA.

Then, since you also bought Swirl I assume you have some light spiderwebbing that you want to get rid of - whatever wax survives the claying will be removed by the Swirl, for sure (either when used by hand or via random orbital machine).

Once the car is clayed then Swirled, give it a quick wipe-down with detailing spray to remove any Swirl dust and apply the Epic. Allow the Epic to dry (generally 30-60 minutes depending on humidity and temp) until it passes the "swipe test" (i.e. run your finger across the hazed wax - if it leaves behind a dry, shiny patch with NO streaking then it's ready to be removed). I wipe away the cured Epic by hand since the MINI is so small. Re-apply a second coat of Epic and you're all set.

Use Hydro every second or third wash to keep the wax slick and shiny - just wash the car and then BEFORE DRYING spritz a few squirts of Hydro on each wet panel, then dry. Applying Hydro to wet panels will help dilute/spread it, resulting in better results and less product used.

As for Amigo being a polish, I think it'a a GLAZE actually - you may be thinking of Prima Finish, which is a very fine "finishing" polish.

Both Amigo and Finish are GREAT products, but I went a year without using either on my car and it looks like new even after all these months. Unless you're using the Swirl on a medium cutting pad (such as the orange one) you should not get any hazing. Either by hand or by machine, just be sure to keep working the Swirl against the paint until it turns clear - this means that the abrasive elements have diminished to their finest ammount. This will keep the car from hazing.

Just order some Amigo and/or Finish when you put in another order but stick to Epic and Hydro for now, and Slick detail spray (if you have any) for 2-3 times weekly touch-ups.

 

Question: Does the car look good? If so, why not wait and let nature do some of the wearing for you? I'm no detailing expert, but you haven't doen anything to cause damage, so if it don't look bad...... At least wait for the Amigo. I believe you could just use the Amigo instead of the Swirl, anyway.

 

UPDATE... I checked DP's page and Amigo IS a glaze... But it's also a polish! It's a mutant!

"Either way, we still need to describe Prima Amigo; Amigo is a paintwork cleanser...It is a polymer-based glaze...It is a super-fine polish which levels up to 3000 grit imperfections. Combine all three properties and you can see why we think it doesn’t fall into any currently defined categories of car care products."

I've only used it as a pre-wax glaze, not as a finishing polish, and it works great as a glaze.

This is a good point... ICE will wear off after less than half-a-dozen washes in my experience (I used ICE before Prima) and found it would dissappear after a week or two. I'd still re-clay before applying Epic just to be sure you don't have any fresh contaminents that will be trapped beneath the Epic, but waiting a few weeks will probably make your job easier, assuming it looks OK right this second...

 

This has been very helpful!

Since I put the ICE on last it will wear off in a month, right? Then there's just carnuaba on it- which dawn or something will take care of, so why would I need to clay again?

Also, I already have a glaze (light polish mutant) from The Wax Shop which is pretty good. Can I just use that instead of Amigo? It is a carnuaba product, however. I'm not sure how that will affect the next application of Epic to come. That sounds like a bad combo to me, now that I think about it. What other product can I pick up that is similar to Amigo that I won't have to order? (shipping would kill me!)

The car does look great- but it won't last long due to the way that I layered the products.

 

Amigo has abrasives and glaze. It is less abrasive than Swirl (which may be more abrasive than you need in this case). So it can save you the step of dulling and then revitalizing the surface.

 

How potentially dangerous is Swirl to my paint? My paint's in good shape, but there are swirls- which is why I got it. Could I use the Swirl to get the current stuff off?

 

I have only used it to try to remove some scratching. I don't think it is dangerous, I would just be inclined to use less abrasive stuff for what you describe. Others have a lot more experience than me, though... I would do what Heather says. Even though, as a vendor, she wants to sell product, her advice looks thoughtful and honest to me.

 

Everything I hearform here and elsewhere says that Swirl will usually only haze when used with a RO polisher on a medium-grade pad (such as the orange one).

If you use it on a fine pad (or by hand) and then keep working the polish until it turns clear (indicating that the microscopic polishing "grit" has diminished all the way to its finest level - IMPORTANT) then you should be fine. I've used Swirl on my MINI on a fine pad, and it came out like a mirror, with no hazing whatsoever. Others have used it on the orange pad with no hazing, and I'd bet that those people properly worked the polish until it was 100% diminished.

Again, if you're planning on usuing the Swirl by hand, then just work small (12"X12" area MAX) and keep working the polish until it turns perfectly clear (will take a few minutes of constant rubbing to properly diminish the Swirl).

As for claying, I still would, yeah - God knows what managed to settle in the car while you're waiting a month for the ICE to go away, and anyhting trapped beneath the fresh Epic will erode the clear coat AND the underside of the wax simultaneously.

After the Epic is on, I'd only clay once or twice a year afterwards, but it's always a good idea to start with a clean paint surface IMHO. Properly cared for, the Epic will last literally months, so start clean - a good finish is all in the prep-work!

 

Thanks! ^^

Any ideas on a temporary product that's like Amigo?

 

MINIFVR - Don't use a carnuaba based product under any synthetic. The key to a good Epic job is to get a good bond to the paint. This is why you clay.
If this were my situation, I think I would let the ICE drop off then to insure it is totally gone I would use a 50/50 mix of water and alcohol. Then I would do a Dawn wash to rid the surface of any remaining carnuaba and road oil/grease. Then I would do the baggie test to feel the paint to determine if clay is needed (I doubt that it would be needed). Swirl would be next. Do a test spot to determine how much effort is needed on the entire MINI then start with a section at a time with a bit of overlap. Amigo is a nice pre-Epic step but not totally necessary. Swirl will not haze your finish if used on a DP orange or white pad, but the yellow pad will most likely cause some hazing.
Now that the paint is nice and clean and Swirl has removed the surface swirls and spiderwebs Epic can be used next with confidence that the bond will be strong. Put Epic on as thin as possible, thinner than you think it should be. Allow to cure then buff off using a soft MF (Monster Fluffy is my choice). Use Slick to help get any tough spots of Epic off (thick spots).
Now I would stand back and soak in the shine knowing that the next day it will be even better looking.

 

Why don't you just wash your car with some Dawn (yes, the dishwashing detergent)? That stuff will disolve what you put on.

 

Dawn gets off carnuaba-based wax (which is an oil) but generally won't touch cured synthetic wax. The OP used synthetic ICE wax, so Dawn really won't help him much - best to let it wear off or re-clay.

 

Yeah. Since the ICE was put on top of the carnuaba it probably didn't get cured or even on the paint correctly. I clayed and waxed my 04' TL using the correct order and it turned out much better. Hopefully the synthetic wax bonded well.

How much of the Swirl do you use? Like a 'thin coat' like you would with Epic?

 

You need to re-apply every time you go to a fresh 12"X12" section, since the polishing compounds break down (diminish) as you work... I use just enough to make a thin circle around the outside edge of the pad (when using the random orbital polisher) - enough to make a smooth, even working surface. As I continue to work, I use a bit less, since my pad is loading up with product. If the Swirl dries before at least 2 minutes of working, you're using a bit too little - ideally the product will still be slightly damp even when it diminishes all the way to clear.

If you're using hand-power, start with a dollop about the size of a quarter on your cloth, then work that in - ideally you should have a thin yet still-wet layer spread evenly across your woprk area, which should not dry even if you work it for 3-5 minutes (by hand will take longer to break down the Swirl).

Also, either by hand or by RO, start by spritzing your pad or cloth with a few light squirts of detail spray - it will help lubricate the polish a bit. Just a misting is more than enough - don't soak the cloth or pad.

Epic actually goes on lots thinner... Heather recommends only using like 3-4 teaspoons of Epic to coat the entire car (IIRC - Heather please correct me if I'm wrong). This is lots easier to do with the RO polisher than by hand, since the machine can lay down such a smooth, thin and even coat, but by hand is OK as well -you'll probably just use a bit more than you need to.

For lots more details, I recommend Richard's excellent detailing DVD, available at ShowCarDetailing.com - he covers both hand and RO polishing techniques in the DVD.

 

If you are not happy with the appearence right now I would suggest Griots Paint Prep or P21S Paintwork Cleanser. Wash and rinse it well then inspect the car. If you are not happy with the condition of the paint use Swirl or Amigo. If you are happy with the condition I would think you could just apply Epic.

Disclaimer: This is from a Non-OCD, non-Hyrdo addicted MINI owner

 

Whats the rush? You at least have the Carnauba on there now. Wait until it goes then redo it. Unless you just want to do some work?

 

Well it does look great as it is now. I just Hydroed it for the first time...um....yeah. I don't think I'll mess with it for now. I'll probably wait a month or two and do it then- before I go back to school.

 

You really should not use Hydro over carnuaba - the synthetic wax in Hydro just won't stick to the natural carnuaba wax. There are spray-on wax products with a carnuaba base that you can use on top of carnuaba wax.
I really doubt the Hydro will have much staying power on top of the ICE as well (it doesn't have much staying power anyway and on a dodgy base of ICE it's life will be even more abbreviated).

 

I was told this earlier, but I just couldn't not try it. It looks fab right now. I guess we'll see how long it lasts...

 

I know in a later post you clarify Amigo, but I find Amigo an optional step, but a desirable one on black paints. But just the same, in the thread about how many times you can polish paint before going through--there are many reasons why using a glaze with fillers is desirable over trying to always remove swirls. Minimizing the appearance of them whenever possible is going to be better in the long run for your paint--especially if you polish frequently.

Actually Amigo has for the most part no abrasives (they are extremely fine)--the pad you use will be more aggressive than what's in Amigo. For that reason I will use the white pad with Amigo to knock out any very fine swirls that remain in my finish after using the orange pad and Swirl.

I know I've read this too, but in my experience whether I use an orange pad with my rotary buffer or the RO, I have only experienced a slightly hazy finish once. This was easily seen in my test spot, and I took a different course of action.

The most common pad I use is the orange pad and Swirl.

 

Richard, I heard the warning re: hazing from Heather, who also said that it only happens once in a blue moon... Luckily, I've always gotten good results from the basic white PC pad when combined with Swirl. I really do need to get some more 6" velcro-backed pads though - it's such a pain unscrewing the white screw-on PC pad and swapping the 5" counterweight for the 6" one every time I detail...