What a loaded question huh?
Of course there is virtually unlimited power with all the options- turbo, supercharged A+, VTECS, V8(!), R1 engine, but for a well built 1275, how would it compare to say a new Cooper S on a track?

This question comes from my increasing urge to shift gears in my motorsports hobby world. I don't own a Mini now but have been investigating the option for quite some time and seems like this is the biggest forum for North American Classic Mini owners (?) so I thought there would be a decent amount of owners out there who track their Minis and could share their opinions and experience.
I figure some of you may have ran the corners with new S's at some track events so a direct comparo would be relevant ...and sure to bring some debates (sorry).

Without having experienced a drive or even a ride in a Mini, I wonder if they would be quick enough for my desires, exciting enough for me to leave 4 years of kart racing behind to get back into owning a fun, streetable and trackable classic car. Our marriage agreement states one toy at a time and its all the budget and garage can handle so I can't do both.

I know there is so much more than outright speed that makes Mini ownership so fulfilling but that is the issue I'm hung up on. Here's the kind of car that says buy me:
http://www.minimania.com/web/id/8148...ale_Detail.cfm

Thanks guys.

 

Tough to answer...

What is your intend use? What do you mean "track"?

You'll get more experienced answers on MiniMania threads (worldwide)
A Mini is not as fast as a MINI. (I've had lot's of both)
A great Mini for the track will be a PITA on the street.
A Mini is a lot like a cart feeling in size and handling
A Mini requires mechanical ability, money & time

BUY THE BEST BODY SHELL you can find. You won't regret it. The mechanicals are easy compared to patching/restoring a shell.


For track cars/driver's opinions see:
http://www.vintageminiracing.com/log...opic.php&t=993

another good resource
http://www.ausmini.com/forums/index.php
http://www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums/index.php?act=idx

 

You could also call Mike (owner) at SEVEN Enterprises as he is the owner of the FORTECH racing Mini and has years of experience in racing and building racing motors for avid classic lovers. He's a great guy with whom to speak and is open about such information.

In short, his race car which won it all a couple years back, has about 150 whp and is not streetable best I understand. I took him in my 237 whp Mini and he wanted out by the time we got around the block...it may have been my driving though. Anyhow, I was asking if I should get one of the beautiful stock species he often has in his shop as I love / appreciate both the stock and the vtec modified cars. His response to me was, "Nah, you'd be bored." NOW that is a tailored response directly intended for ME and is NOT a standard statement from him. He may be wrong about that, too. I do drive normally most of the time and he may have come to that conclusion erroneously based on my driving and history he witnessed.

To get a flavor of the car's ability in turns, I offer this: I raced some street bikes down the Dragon full tilt and I can tell you a MINI or a Mini or a Vtec Mini can out run most bikes on those turns if one has the gonads / stupidity, the major difference between those three cars on that venue is what the car can pull in the little amount of straight.

Dmini often runs his MINI at a local track and does well except when the ZO6's and M3's show up...he could offer some insight between his vtec Mini truck and his JCW MINI if we could get him out of his garage and back in front of his computer.

Minimad asks the question about "track" and that definition will have much to do about the correct answer for you so you can get a flavor for what variant suites you best.

In my final analysis, you should go drive a proper Mini and see for yourself. There is likely a club near where you live so at least you can see and touch or perhaps get a ride or drive one. This, in my opinion, would be paramount to make a decision. Truthfully, after experiencing one first hand the infatuation with the look of the car might be subdued by the disappointment of your expectations.

Best wishes to you...

 

Tough question, and I think the only way to answer it is to drive some cars.

I run the same track and same time as dimini, and I went with him to Ga to get his Vtec P'up so I can say I have a fair amount of time behind the wheel of it as well. I also owned a 62 Cooper S for many years.

The new MINI will be far more fun and forgiving as both a street/track car than a properly set up track Mini, and it will have all the modern devices like A/C, ABS, DCS etc. It will also be extremely reliable and have far better brakes.

My classic Mini was a ball to drive, pretty reliable but had weak brakes (I had factory Cooper S 7" discs). I used it as a daily driver for many years, but I never tried to run it on the track, so I can't comment there.

The Vtec combination presents an interesting thought, it's certainly fast enough, can be had with massive brakes if you get away from the 10" wheels and can be reliable with the Honda power. It can also have a good HVAC system, but you'll spend as much or more for one of those as a new JCW

I think you need to drive some cars and decide where your priority lies - street or track, then go accordingly.

 

I've been driving the turbo mini (metro swap, "97hp at the crank") for a couple of months now. I previously came from the Honda family (Supercharged H22, H22 Type S swap) and also like to spend time riding twisty backroads on a bike.

The turbo mini is honestly a bit on the sluggish side. I believe the expected 1/4 mile time is somewhere in the high 15's, but more realistically, mid 16's. Then again, I don't drag race, but from a red light, expect to accelerate in the same manner as a "typical" budget commuter car (civics, neons etc) and be "blown away" by the a heavy footed V6 accord driving soccer mom. Take a second to imagine how dramatic it is when I want to beat a minivan to a 2-into-1 lane merge... quick takeoff, turbo spooling (its noisy), blow off between shifts etc. only to marginally squeeze ahead, lol. Or, when going up a steep incline, to stay in 2nd gear screaming at 4500rpm (like, 35mph) feathering the gas trying not transition into boost (it would be incredibly hard on the turbo to boost all the way up) with a long line of cars behind you.

You would imagine where the mini lacks in HP it would accel in handling. This is only partly true. I've found that spirited driving through twisties EASILY starves the engine of oil. My oil pressure gauge will take a dive without the dash lights ever coming on (the oil light is on when the ignition is on, but car isn't running... meaning the light works, but only illuminates when its too late). You can fix that issue by installing a center oil pickup (I understand it as a BIG job that is typically done when removing the gearbox)

So in short, the turbo mini isn't quite "fast", nor does it handle exceptionally well (if you want to keep the motor). With a 4speed transmission, you will be going 65mph at about 4k rpm where the road noise will render you deaf in a short amount of time

Just my 2 cents.

 

Your budget will be your biggest factor.
Lets start at the low end. Say you plan on picking up a normal 1275 Mini. Expect 0-60 in about 15 seconds. Figuring standard gears, top speed is in the 80s. You will be blown away by every car on the track. You won't have a chance at keeping up.
So you buy the Turbo Mini you linked. It will have a little more power, and I am not sure about the gearing, but I doubt that car would be much faster.
To even start to keep up with any normal car, you will have to dump a lot of money into it, and forget about driving it on the street. At that point buy a MINI S for the same price and you will still be faster.

Now let me add something no one else has mentioned: safety. A stock Mini has no safety features what so ever. At minimum I would consider a roll cage, and probably a fuel cell. Harnesses would also be smart since you don't have an airbag. Even if you are only doing DEs, things happen and you could end up in a wall.

A few other things to consider in general.
Plan on fixing things, a lot.
Make sure you at least have disc brakes. I know someone with drums that only gets about 3-4 laps before his drums overheat.
Consider the wheels and tires that are available. There are not many tires available in the stock Mini size. A lot of 13's exist in the racing world, but you will probably have to trim fenders to make them fit.
You will probably want to trailer it to the track, because it will break down on you at some point and not be able to get you home.

If you have unlimited funds and the desire, go for it and have fun. But if you are just thinking that the Mini is small and light and should be able to keep up with the big guys as is, then I think you will be disappointed.

 

Back in the day, the Mini was extremely competitive because all the cars it raced against were either equally underpowered or far from nimble in the turns. Today just about any car on the road will eat it up on a straight and many will outperform it in the turns. So if your goal is to be competitive on the track, you'll likely be better off looking at something else (unless you have very deep pockets). But on the other hand, if you just want something fun to throw through the turns, IMHO you won't find anything more enjoyable to put through the paces. One of the joys of driving a Mini is that it feels much faster than it really is and it's a blast to put it to its limits. And you'll definitely feel it the next day.

 

Well guys, thanks for being frank with me and not powder coating the truth that a REALLY quick Mini is not impossible... just very expensive and involved.

I'd describe my ideal Mini as being a "fairly" reliable daily driver with a spartan interior (semi caged, back seat intact), noisy exhaust and a brutal ride. It would see open track days 6 times a year, occasional AutoX and be very quick (quicker that a stock MINI S at least). Cosmetic condition would be a 7 out of 10.
....And I would pay no more than 10k.

I believe I would need a VTEC swap for the performance and reliability I have in mind and I'm just shocked at the prices! Not saying they are overpriced because I know most people start with an A1 shell and plop a fresh motor in there with a healthy amount of fab work. Not cheap.

Since I have always loved these cars.... and my wife fully supports me (she had to sell her MINI Cooper when the baby came a few years back), the option still remains on the plate. I'll have to wait until spring to hook up with a local club and get some first hand experience.

Thanks guys.

 

I had a 98 hp Mini pickup, and it was about as quick as a stock MINI S. It pretty much had a stock suspension, so on the track I got eaten up by even the Justacoopers in the turns . But I had more fun.

 

if you get a 1380 or 1420 Mini... you will have one hell of a ride. the engine is like 5000 dollars though... plus nicknacks here and there.

 

They make a pretty nifty supercharger kit for them now, it's supposed to take a 60 hp 1275/1300 to right at 100hp, and keep the reliability. That's the route I'd take if I wanted a quick classic.......

 

A work-mate of mine is big into Minis, he was just wrapping up his VTEC swap when he got sent to the UK for work. Of course he's happy to be in the center of Miniville and had to buy one right away.
He's retrofitted a new Cooper S supercharger to his classic, I guess this is becoming more of a popular route there... I haven't read much about people here doing it.
The power gains are of course substantial although the durability is a little suspect if one doesn't take the necessary precautions (lowering the compression) and the SC lobes tend to wear out premature because the SC is actually after the carb... so air AND gas are being pressed through it.

Never the less, it is another way to make the car much quicker. My bud has a real need for speed and this seems to satisfy... at least until he gets back to his VTEC.

 

They can be "made to be very quick" its all about time, money and how stupid you want to be. Im real stupid





It will be in the 450whp range

 

 

Good God.


A rear engined Mini has always been my fantasy. What engine is that?
I see a big 'ol snail. Yikes.


I'm wondering if I could entice some Formula SAE students over with free pizza and beer so they could build me the chassis while I watch and learn yeah yeah, good work guys ... I'll have better beer next week, I promise.

 

Its a K20Z1 out of an 06 Acura RSX. Of course with added turbo, internals, LSD, 70mm throttle body, fuel rail, 850 injectors, Hondata and um direct port NOS. hehe

 

Keep kart racing. There is no substitute.

- Former kart racer