It's my understanding that there are two different companies casting the OEM S-lite's. They have different structural designs "behind the face", as in the shape of the spokes from the inside of the wheel looks different.

Are these different manufacturer S-lite's the same weight, and can someone verify this?

Cheers,
Ryan

 

HMPF! No knowledge out there I see

I'll rephrase, do both castings of the S-Lite weigh 25 pounds?

 

Try asking over at Mini2.com
Nothing against this website but Mini2 is much more global and actually has members who work at the Oxford factory. They should know if anyone does!
Can I ask you how you know there are two different castings, have you seen them? I thought that I was pretty well up on the Mini but I have never heard about this one!! Good luck.
Cheers Limey.

 

Hi Limey,
I've seen threads where people have posted pictures of the two different castings, and the inside spokes are very differently shaped. They're also made in different countries (forget which). I'll ask on MINI2, thanks!

 

Update (that was fast!)

Here's the Old S-lite's:


And the New S-lite's:


See how the new one doesn't have the rib (which is hollow), but has more material around the hub area (old one is "hollow" around the spokes near the hub-mount).
Supposedly, the weight is very similar, which is "Boat Anchor" (25 pounds)

Cheers,
Ryan

_________________
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Jumping in here, but are these the wheels you are talking about?



Is there a lighter replacement that has the same look?

 

Speaking of MINI2, there are several threads over there that really analyze the wheel/tire effect on rotational mass, acceleration, and gas mileage. Here's one to start. There are some seriously detailed conversations going on over there...

McKinney...yes, those are the wheels Rye's talking about, but again, the two different castings are reported to have about the same weight. So, the only way you're going to get a lighter OEM wheel is to choose a different size altogether. If I were to order my MCS again, I'd probably go with the 16s vs. the 17s.

 

Thanks jsun, technical stuff flows through my veins

conversely, I think the S-lite's still look amazing on the MCS (I'm keeping my white's as winter wheels)

Cheers,
Ryan

 

I have an idea: Putting H&R wheel spacers behind the S-lites to push them out to "aftermarket wheel" territory in terms of offset.

Most aftermarket wheels (esp specified by Tire Rack) push the outer lip of the wheel up to 16mm further out than stock! I would like to know, what is a safe, non-rubbing spacer-thickness number for the stock S-lites with OEM Pirelli's? H&R makes 5, 15, 20mm and so up for the MINI. The 5mm spacers would be subtle and effective. Would the 15mm spacers be on-the-edge of rubbing or sticking out too much?

Cheers, and TIA,
Ryan

 

I will keep bumping this thread, I won't let it die! :evil:

REPHRASE: How big a H&R Wheel spacer can I fit behind my S-lites without rubbing on H&R springs???

 

Ryan,

Rubbing aside, I would not go more than the 5mm spacers behind your S-Lites. Also, I wouldn't use an aftermarket wheel with a negative offset of less than 45mm. Here's why:

Reducing negative offset, whether by changing to aftermarket wheels or adding spacers, has both advantages and disadvantages.

Good:
- Wider track for improved handling
- Fills wheel openings for better appearance
- More inside clearance for springs or coilovers

Bad:
- Potentially adverse handling effects due to changes in steering geometry
- Shorter life of front suspension/steering components
- Shorter tire life
- Less outside clearance, possible tire rubbing at wheel opening lip

Let me try to explain some of these. In steering, each front wheel pivots about a vertical axis. If that axis is projected to the ground, the point the axis reaches the ground should be in the exact center of the tire's contact patch. Actually the point is in front of the center of the contact patch creating something called castor, but for this discussion castor is irrelevent so we'll neglect it. With the steering axis at the contact patch center point, the wheel will pivot neutrally about that axis. When we move the wheel outward with spacers, we move the center point of the contact patch outward relative to the steering axis. The result is that the wheel will want to pivot around the axis, or turn, when it is traveling straight down the road.

Think of what would happen if you mounted the front wheel of your bicycle on the outside of one of the front fork blades instead of between the two blades. With the wheel way out to the side, the bicycle would not track straight and would be difficult to ride. The only difference on a car is that there are two wheels connected through the steering linkage. So with improper offsets the left wheel wants to go left and the right wheel wants to go right, the force is equalized by the steering linkage, and the driver doesn't feel anything different at the wheel. But all that added force/stress in the steering linkage will contribute to tire and linkage wear, and can cause some strange results in cornering as the car's weight is shifted from the inside to the outside wheels.

The reason most aftermarket wheels have less negative offset is not for any performance reason; its because the makers want to fit as many different cars as possible from one common casting. The factory MINI offsets are high and for someone to produce a wheel specifically for the MINI would limit the potential market for that wheel to only MINIs. Tooling for a wheel casting costs hundreds of thousands of dollars, so a wheel maker wants to buy one set of tooling, cast one common wheel, and then machine different bolt circles and hub diameters to fit a multitude of cars. For cars with unusually low or high offsets, the resulting wheel becomes a compromise.

In my opinion, a little less negative offset can be a good thing; but a lot less negative offset can be harmful to both handling and durability. The offsets of the factory wheels range from 50 (S-Lites) down to 45 (7-Hole 15"ers). So I think you are safe with any offset between 45 and 50. I may try the 5mm spacers with S-Lites when I get my car. I am concerned however with the long term results of some of these aftermarket wheels with offset of 38-40. For those who have gone this route, I am curious to see in a couple years as the cars get some miles on them, if we get a lot of complaints of loose front ends, vibrations and shimmies, and costly front end rebuilds.

Now I'm sure there will be those who disagree with me. And I will grant the usefulness of lower offsets on a dedicated track car. But on a track car there are more variables available with adjustable strut mounts and suspension components. Further, with a track car, performance is the only concern; to hell with suspension and tire life. For those of us who want a nice looking, good handling, durable car for the street, I think my reasoning is sound.

Let me/us know if you get those spacers and how they work out.

Best of luck,

James

 

James, I appreciate your explaination. You're kinda preaching to the choir )
Ryan

 

Thanks to both of you, very educational. Can you offer your thoughts about changing over from the standard wheel bolts to the studs and lug bolts as recommended by a popular spacer vendor?

 

>>I have an idea: Putting H&R wheel spacers behind the S-lites to push them out to "aftermarket wheel" territory in terms of offset.
>>
>>Most aftermarket wheels (esp specified by Tire Rack) push the outer lip of the wheel up to 16mm further out than stock! I would like to know, what is a safe, non-rubbing spacer-thickness number for the stock S-lites with OEM Pirelli's? H&R makes 5, 15, 20mm and so up for the MINI. The 5mm spacers would be subtle and effective. Would the 15mm spacers be on-the-edge of rubbing or sticking out too much?
>>
>>Cheers, and TIA,
>>Ryan


that would loooook so awesome, how much would it cost? hard to install? change driving?

 

DeMinimus,

When made and installed correctly, I know of no technical problems or disadvantages with the studs versus bolts. I think they don't look as nice, especially when the studs are too long and show a lot of thread outside of the lug nuts. Decorative plastic lug caps might help.

One added benefit is that when installing wheels, you can gently hang the wheel on the studs and it will stay there while you start the lug nuts. Whereas with bolts it always requires a two-hands plus one knee balancing act to get the first bolt started.

Cheers,

James

 

lbboarderh2o,

1 - Spacers and new bolts will set you back about $70+.
2 - As easy to install as changing a wheel.
3 - Please read entire thread; can be good, can be very bad.

Cheers,

James

_________________
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>>1 - Spacers and new bolts will set you back about $70+.
>>2 - As easy to install as changing a wheel.
>>3 - Please read entire thread; can be good, can be very bad.
>>

James, that's $70 PER AXLE. The H&R spacers come is Pairs!

2-pr H&R 5mm spacers, $100
16 wheel bolts (at $2.50/e, from Turner), $40

Grand total for all four wheels = $140

I haven't ordered them yet, gimmie another few days (plus, still don't have my MINI )

Cheers,
Ryan

 

I wouldn't mind having the 16" but the 17" S-lites are just the nicest looking wheels for the S in existence. I wanted perfromance too, though, so I got the pulley. Now I have the best of both wolds!

 

Well, I just ordered the H&R Trak+ 5mm wheel spacers (and matching wheel bolts, 35mm) from Turner Motorsport. They've always been good with shipping, I'll update you guys when they arrive. More importantly, I'll update when my MINI get's here! I'll do a "before and after" photo-shoot, so you guys can see the difference.

Cheers,
Ryan

 

I got my H&R Trak+ 5mm wheelspacers today from Turner. These pieces look very well machined, and extremely high quality.

Also found out that the stock S-Lites have a 48mm offset, contrary to the 50mm I thought they were (thanks RandyBMC for the info). With the spacers, I'll have an effective offset of 43mm.

I'll be measuring the virtual pivot, so I can understand how my scrub-radius will change after the 5mm push. More to come!

Cheers,
Ryan

_________________
Wisdom is not a function of age, but a function of experience.
*Keeper of the CWFAC list*

 

Ryan,

Do you think the ET48 versus ET50 confusion for the stock S-Lites may be due to the two different castings (the original topic of this thread before we so clearly hijacked it!

Also lately, I am considering the Enkei RPM2 wheels; 17x7 ET45 16.9lbs and a street price of around $180 each. Look like they could be an ideal wheel for the MINI. Check-em out:

Enkei RPM2 Wheel

Oh, and you're right on that spacer pricing; missed that one. Ouch.

Cheers,

James