I own an '02 MINI, with Douglas Performance GT-H 195/60 R 15 88H "Directional" tires. I recently moved from north Idaho to north central Colorado. The north/south interstate (I-25) has long sections of grooved pavement. When driving on these sections my MINI exhibits very squirmy handling and it takes a conscious effort to keep it between the lines and steering in a more-or-less straight direction.

I don't have this problem on any other road surfaces. My questions are,

1. Has anyone else experienced this kind of squirmy handling on grooved pavement?
2. What might the problem(s) be?
3. Is there a solution?

Thanks!

 

I have this same problem on occasion with my OZ Superleggera wheels and my Yokohama tires... Dr. Tuls says it is caused by the wider tires.....

 

This is called "trammeling".

Here is a thread on MINI2 that explains it http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthrea...ght=trammeling

 

I notice it on every freeway in the bay area that has the rain grooves. I have dayton tires which are made by bridgestone and it has the v shaped tread.. When I had my stock 16"s I didnt notice it at all..I recently moved up to 17"s with 215, 45, 17"s.
the solution is either get a tire that has a wider tread preferrably a yoko or something like that.
or just dont take the freeway!

 

Actually, it's called tram-lining and has nothing to do with an LSD. It is caused by the tires following grooves in the road, ruts (often caused by trucks or heavy traffic) or the crown of the road. Wider tires usually WORSEN the problem slightly not improve it. All cars do it to some degree; it is just more noticeable in cars with very direct steering, low profile tires, etc.

 

^^^ wat he said.

 

I've never heard the word "trammeling" before....hmm...

Maybe it's my distorted perception of how things feel in my car, but my pirelli runflats felt like they tramlined more (205/45s) than my 215/40 toyos...

It can be a disconcerting feeling....having the steering wheel try tell you where it wants to go...

"NO!! Bad CAR!!! We're going over HERE!!!"

haha...

 

tram·mel ([FONT=verdana, sans-serif] P [/FONT]) Pronunciation Key (trml)
n.

1. A shackle used to teach a horse to amble.
2. Something that restricts activity, expression, or progress; a restraint.
3. A vertically set fishing net of three layers, consisting of a finely meshed net between two nets of coarse mesh.
4. An instrument for describing ellipses.
5. An instrument for gauging and adjusting parts of a machine; a tram.
6. An arrangement of links and a hook in a fireplace for raising and lowering a kettle.

tr.v. tram·meled, or tram·melled tram·mel·ing, or tram·mel·ling tram·mels or tram·mels

1. To enmesh in or as if in a fishing net. See Synonyms at hamper[SIZE=-1]1[/SIZE].
2. To hinder the activity or free movement of.

 

it depends on the width and the firmness of the sidewalls offset, and alignment settings.

a soft 215 will not tramline like stiff 205's and so forth.

one of the reasons why I got the GS-D3's on my 205 with +42
is because the sidewalls are softer than S03's and would minimize
tramlining. Actually, I have no tramlining on my setup.

I usually use S03's on my hobby cars but made an exception
this time and its result was goood.

 

Thanks everyone! After all's said & done, it appears I'll just have to live with the problem and hang on to the steering wheel, with increased awareness, when I'm on stretches of grooved roads. I'm certainly not satisfied with this, and find little comfort in the fact that others are having the same, or even worse, experiences.

But, am I correct in gleaning from the responses that narrow tires with stiff sidewalls have the potential to lessen the problem? If so, then, of course, there goes the fun of romps on twisty backroads!

 

no, narrower tires with softer sidewalls (45 profile or more) will
minimize tramlining considering that they are near +45mm offset
and given that your alignment is not a toe-out condition.

 

snip

OR, here comes another set of tires and wheels

Earl

 

My 205/45/17 Kumhos tram-lined like crazy. The 205/45/17 Michelin Exalto PE2s do not.

I've noticed that directional tires tramline more than asymetric tires or non-directional tires.

 

I have a similar problem but over a much shorter distance. I cross a steel grate bridge on my way home from work every night. It really gets the mini rocking.

--when the mini is a rockin dont come a knocking.

 

yah, my car's like that too when going over bridges downtown
Chicago.

 

Hey, French. I had a '96 Civic w/ different sets of 195/60/14's that tramlined horribly on those I-25 groves b/n the Springs & Denver--they're supposed to prevent hydroplaning & major ice-ups, but those road groves are terrible!


Z