As usual, I've been having a little fun arguement with friends on how well the MINI can handle VS the great sports cars of the world. So, out of curiosity, if money wasn't a factor, what "super car" could you compared the best handling-modded MINI to?

Are we looking at better handling than Lamborghinis and Ferraris? Porches? Or just mom's mini van across the street?

Thanks,
Jonathan

 

It's a little hard to say. Mainly because the MINI is fwd while all supercars are rwd. They are completely different beasts. The MINI's short wheelbase makes it very good for the fast, tight radius turns but it can get a little squirmy at higher speeds. I would say that it's not hard to make the MINI the best handling front wheel drive car; and it can take most corners as fast as your 911's or M3's.

 

+1 Think of it as a Porsche with six reverse gears and one forward gear. <<<Thats how one Porsche and MINI owner put it on another thread here on NAM.

 

HAHA!!!

So it can definately bring some punch to the track, even against some of the "best".

 

It can hang with the Vettes and boxtsers in stock form. Going to the track the biggest differance will be in the Drvier. I recommend NASA and have heard good things about PBOC, both run at Sebring regularly and experiance is whats going to let you hang with the big boys. Also autocross (SCCA is running events every weekend in FL) is where you are going to be able to push the car to its limits, and also receive instruction although its less structured from what I understand. Also reading up on techniques and theory will help but you can't replace track time.

 

If that were true, why is a MCS slalom times (per R&T) around 67 mph while the Boxster S (with the record) is about 74 mph?

All OEM

 

I have a 993 C4s and that feels like it will out handle the MCS any day of the week. Granted I have only driven the MCS for about 10 miles, but I really got on it. I think the main difference is the steering. The porsche feels heavy and confident and the MCS feels nimble and quick. Likewise that makes the MCS a fun daily driver, and awesome at those quick radius turns......just my input

 

One has to figure in driver skill and the how hard it is to control each car at the limit. For instance, you may be able to push your MINI through the twisties at it's limit pretty consistently, but if you jumped into a Boxster S may you'd find it much more difficult to control. The room for driver error is much smaller. Don't agree with this rationale? Look at the McLaren supercar. There have been a lot of stories these $1,000,000 cars being wrecked because the nut behind the wheel was in over his head. Remember, I doubt that any of us (or anyone on the road) are in the same league as a R&T test driver.

 

I agree with you 100%. In fact I just read an article about ppl buying the supercars are wrecking them because they can't handle the power.

That said, using the same driver, clearly the Boxster is superior (at least around their course) so the statement it can take most corners as fast as your 911's or M3's simply is not true, all things being equal.

The mantra about how great MINI cornering may be is, although very good, doesn't jive with the numbers. Maybe the Boxster had more power and that helped but a slalom is not exactly a power course like the long straight at the Ring.

I will chalk it up as hyperbole.

BTW, from reading it appears its very easy to drive the Boxster or Cayman fast as the car is so good, you simply dont realize how fast your going.

 

Did the MCS have any suspension mods? Sports package? Did it have a 200lb sunroof?

 

Given the grand am cars are modded, you can use that as guide.

 

I agree with everyone's statements about the MCS being a great handling car, and how there are some shortcomings compared to many of these more expensive cars.

I would have to think, however, that the MCS can take some lines these other cars can't simply because of it's size, I wouldn't say this is more of an advantage than it is, because it's not much, but just something else to think about.

 

It's a proven fact that MINIs can run with Porsches and M3's. All you need to do is look at autocross wins. For instance, here in North Texas, the last BMWCC autocross had MINIs take class wins in B,C,E, and F. That's four out of nine total classes.

 

My MCS kept up with M3's and the like around LRP. But at the beginner/intermediate level on the track, it's more about the driver than it is about the car. Put me and the dude in the M3 on the same learning curve, and he's whipping me in no time flat.

I think this discussion goes back to the whole idea of usable performance. The MINI gives its owners a strong feeling of being in control of a quick, nimble, athletic vehicle. It does that at relatively low speeds; you don't have to ring out the MCS or MC to feel like you're having fun.

So, sure, for our purposes, I suppose the MCS could handle along with a supercar, but once you push the envelope, the greater engineering, R&D, yada, will handle the MINI (pun intended). I suppose proof is the stat above about the boxter S in the slalom. I haven't looked at the numbers, but I do remember e36 M3's doing the slolom around 67mph.

mb

 

I have been saying this for along time.... The M3s and P cars etc need to be going a lot faster to give you the same feeling of fun/speed..... the downside risk of losing it at 35-45 is a lot better than losing it at say 70-80...the Dragon is my idea of the perfect road for a Mini

 

This post is meant to compliment all that have bought a MINI.

Having recently traded-in an "exotic" on a Cooper S, I can vouch for its handling. Although there are exotics that may be better when driven by a good driver, MINI owners should take pride in their cars' abilities. The MINI really is one of the best cars out there right now - even if price isn't considered.

 

I suppose it all depends how you define "best handling". The subject and initial post seems to ask how the best 'super cars' compare to the best Mini with regards to handling but various posts point towards performance related issues - it all seems unclear what people mean by handling then.

To me handling is steering responsiveness, steering feel, road feel, overall balance working with the suspension and related things like body roll, etc. Performance interleaves with it of course, as does braking and throttle response, but the element of handling can be isolated I think, to how these elements transmit information to the driver, how they work with the driver's input and how accurately/quickly/reliably they respond.

That said, I test drove a new Boxster yesterday and that solid planted feeling, along with the great steering and suspension feedback, made for a wonderful handling car - it was a fun test drive at high and low speeds . So, while the Mini is indeed fun, nimble and kart-like, I find the solid low center of gravity, front/rear weight balanced rear wheel drive car like the Boxster is more confidence inspiring and with that in mind 'handles" better overall. I am sure that there are plenty of fine cars, 'super cars' perhaps, that handle even better then that and yes, better then the Mini if that is how you define handling.

Edit: In thinking about the cars I've had and test driven I have to say that it is very hard to compare front wheel to rear wheel drive vehicles, they just respond differently.

 

but it's not a supercar. For the money, it's very, very good. But there are cars that are significantly better for handling.

It's a serious mistake to think that the Mini is the "best" at almost anything.

Matt

 

case in point - I drove an Elise last week - really left an impression

I also drove modded Boxster S and that left an impression - the Mini does not require the skills that these other cars do to have fun ...... and think you are better than you are.....

Waylen waymotorworks.com drove my Mini at the dragon and said it was one of the better handling Minis he has driven....PSS9s, corner weighted and front and rear sway bars are the highlights and I could not keep up with myself in the Elise

 

I don't know, maybe a distinction needs to be made between track and street driving - I've had plenty of fun in the BMWs and some other cars without exercising any additional skills then when driving the Mini in the twisties, nor did the other cars make me think I was any better then I was vs driving the Mini. I think you may be referring to a power difference vs a handling difference since you can go faster in the more powerful cars more easily?

 

possibly... but since power modulation is used to control the car particulaly out of the corners, I find it hard to separate them

 

you never put your foot on the gas and find the back end of your car passing the front end. FWD cars seem really easy to drive hard, because they are! you point them, and press the go peddle. Without lots of mods, they won't break loose. Combine that with good handling and good brakes, and they sure feel like you can take on all comers!

But sadly for us, that is not the case.....

Matt

 

I haven't driven a boxer or an elise yet, But to make a point about the above statments.

First- The slalom speed between the Boxer and the Mini cooper S is 67 and 74 thats only a 7mpH diffrence, yea your thinking thats alot for a slalom. My question is was the Boxer on run flats. Probaly not! There have been a few cars that have posted faster time in the quater mile and slalom between diffrent years, ie... 95 vs 96 and the only peformance upgrade that was added if you call it a peformace upgrade was a diffrent tire. Am I saying the MCS would beat the 74MPH probally not (possible maybe).I do think that the 7 mph diffrence could be easily sliced in half with capable tires of equal quality to the ones found on the Boxster S.

I think I can sleep at night knowing that my lil cooper with its clean upgrade wheels and tires, that cost 20- 30,000 less that the Boxster S (which if I understand right holds the record at R&T for the slalom) is only about 3 MPH slower than a MID engine sports car.

I also believe its hard to compare the RWD to FWD, and I think the MINI ranks pretty close if not at the top of the FWD field.

Lastly, this really has nothing to do with the handeling , most people can live with the MCS, it every day driveable (comfortably), its not to bad on gas, it doesn't require 1,000 + brake jobs and oil changes that have to be done someone with a very strange forign accent, and you can actually put miles on it.

 

I totally agree with this......it gets back to skill......the Mini is easier to drive fast for "regular people" of which I am one.

I would shy away from the Boxster because I like the "mod" thing and the expense would be rediculous to do what I have done to my Mini..... "modding" cars in the 50s and muscle cars all were born out of regular everyday models..... I saw no modded XKEs (work with this before you flame me)

My Mini can go to the grocery store and carry samples of loudspeakers

While it is cute it doesn't scream "look at me" like an Elise.

My car handles better than I can drive..... I am the limiting factor......good enough for me

 

The Ariel Atom is one of the greatest handling cars in production at this time.