wow.

 

There's a difference between having an opinion on something whether it be out of frustration or not; and then presenting yourself as an adult. Lets keep this Proffesional.

 

Sarcasm. He's been expressive in several posts thusfar.

 

How is the redesign/updates coming?

Still, very very interested in Megans.

 

The Suspension travel issue has been resolved, this unfortuantely brings up the spring rates to an 8kg, which honestly isn't so bad.

But at that spring rate at the proper pre-load, the dampers ride kind of high. So now I'm trying to figure out a way to lower the car a bit more, at least by 1/2" of what I have right now. I have them set as low as they'll go, I'll take a picture to show you the front end on my stock 16's.

 

How low can the car go before the suspension geometry gets thrown out of whack and the car handles worse? How high of spring rates can these dampers hold?

 

They're not going that low at all, you can raise them to above stock height at this point. The fronts can't go any higher than 8kg springs in their current setup.

 

boy today is a fun day.

whats the point of a coilover system if you cant lower the car down. i highly doubt that raising the car over stock height is a priority for most people looking for an adjustable suspension. Other companies that make similiar systems for the mini dont seem to have a problem. they arent running insanely high spring rates (except tein)

since when are online discussion forums "professional"? if we were keeping it professional the product that you sell would have been designed and R&D'd properly before they were sold. We are the consumers.

Maybe i am a litle frustrated at spending $1,000 dollars on a defective product, offered no refund due to a proven design flaw, than promised redesigned struts and springs in 2 weeks (which have yet to be delivered). Quite honestly you are lucky that no one has filed a class action to get their money back.

 

Today IS a fun day, and I sure am not going to ruin it by throwing an argument back and forth that will get us no where all day long. I can guarantee you that I am trying to get the most out of the system without compromising the ride of the vehicle.. so there will be changes. I know you've been waiting a long time, and I apologize for that. But I really don't want to develop a revision and then have to make another one after that.

 

Chill out buddy...YOU were the one who went and bought the coilovers when they were new to the MINI scene. You could have waited to see if problems arose. Sometimes the products you buy arent what you expected...and that sucks, but you gotta deal with it.

Don't forget that they were supposedly R&D'd by our very own Pilo Racing. So if you have problems with the R&D, why not start talking to them first?

 

^-- Reminds me of my experience with the plasma booster.

In the end, Steve's done everything possible to fix, and fixing takes time. We have to remember where the error came from, and the origin has aided very little in redeveloping. Megan's reputation has staggered, while Pilo Racing remains MIA.

 

Well, having read through this and other threads I think I will look somewhere else for my suspension needs at this time.

 

I have the Megans, and have had them on the track several times. I do like them (although the rear adjustment is a pain to do, even with the extensions). I have the car lowered about an 1.25" below stock, and have no desire to go lower. I ran them at 28 from soft front and 24 from soft rear at VIR, and like the feel. I run the shocks full soft on the street, because I like the tires to stay in contact with the road when I am not on the track

Without opening up massive arguments, what design issues exist with the Megans that is being "worked out"?

 

I have used Megans 8kg/mm front spring with bumpstops cut in half for about 6 weeks now on public roads. I will have my first track event on these tomorrow.

The original design caused many many problems for me, especially on the track. I did not specifically look at travel since these units were designed as a unit in house. The stroke should being longer, for sure.

Am I upset with current events? Sure! I worked out a solution with Steve that is perhaps temporary because it drastically alters the car's balance.

However, that can be changed. My Webb bar is set squarely in the middle of the bar ends instead of at the softest setting. Geometry has been left alone. Dampers are set eaqual front and rear and there is a 5mm spacer up front - a 15 would be better but my stock wheels will not allow 15mm spacers.

Spacers alter motion ratio by sticking the tires out farther from the car's center line. This in turn reduces the spring's and damper's effective rate...but I've not calculated the difference. In theory, the front tires can be moved outboard far enough to make the effective rates nearly the same as before - this is a very valuable tuning technitque by the way, not a band aid. Increasing track also lowers the center of gravity, very desirable.

So, if one were inclined to approach tuning from the correct perspective, adding spacers is a great way to achieve a lower center of gravity. This also changes scrub radius from positive to negative - places the SAI's leverage point in the meat of the contact patch instead of outside it. but the real point here is, that once these decisions are made, you will find it absolutely necessary to install heavier front springs. You cannot look at spring in isolation of everything else.

Some folks complain about a given set of spring/dampers being too stiff while other feel they are comfortable. Well if the first guy is running 50mm offset wheels and the second guy is running 35mm offset wheels, the difference between the two will be very noticable where performacne and comfort is concerned - just from wheel offset.

Cammber adjustments also affect comfort and SAI. The more neg camber dialed in, the more harsh the ride will be and this has been described by others, but the reason was pointed out by me; as the angle of the damper is increased by neg camber, the piston gains velocity as it moves thru is stroke. Simple! Increase track and this is reduced.

The big point here??? You can make these work.

My springs are the same length as before. I raised these as high as possible on the cylinder while cutting half the bumpstop and gained about 1" of travel. I only bottom on the most severe dips. In my opinion, however, the loss of travel should be comparable to the amont of drop; 1" drop, 1" loss of travel. Somehow the Megans lose much more???

I'll let you all know how my event at LRP goes tomorrow - I'll be experimenting between stock tires and the RA1s. The RA1s are mounted on 45mm offset wheels and the everyday stuff on 38mm offset wheels. Both sets will use a 5mm spacer up front. I can tell you that I'll have back out of damping and and a little bit of the rear bar when the 45mm offset wheels going on - because??? The motion ratio is more effective, as is the bar.

defylogik is upset and should be, by the way. We all show our dissappointment in different ways. This deficiency really ruined my entire summer of track events...but I learned quite a bit from it...on many levels.

Michael

 

Michael,

You are saying that with a larger offset(lower is greater right?) you effectily have a softer spring because of stance? I have not heard this before, very interesting.

Sean

 

So... what wheels are those RA1s mounted on? Oh, that's right, the black TRD Pro Race 1s that you were going to take pics of... :impatient You have multiple unanswered PMs. Just looking for some kind of closure, one way or the other. Thanks.

 

you have a PM I'll take pics at the track

 

If you take a given chassis with a given CG height and make the track winder while all else remains the same, the center of gravity drops by a predictable figure. But, One needs to find the CG to begin this calculation. I actually stumbled upon this information while having dinner with an aquaintance who holds at least one all out record at LRP. I've thought about this in concept for a long time, but was educated about a year ago.

Also, the wider stance places the tire's center line farther from the inner control arm pivot point, and, the damper's attachment point on the control arm. Essentially, working in reverse means that the ground now has greater leverage over the tire because of the longer lever arm - like an upside down see saw. These leverage measurements are referred to as motion ratio. You can look it up on the web. This is valuable when you've established some basic wheel rate figures - the actual damping force at the tire's contact patch. Then, if you make changes to wheel offset or other suspension changes that affect leverage to the tire's contact patch, you can employ a motion ratio calculation to define the loss or gain in damping. I copied a calculation that I have not used into NAM somewhere. I was told by Don DHM, that the calculation does not really work. Don is a really knowledgable guy, so I would trust his first read. But that written, these calculations are leverage types and so are linear - very straight forward.

The difference a 5mm space makes is quite noticable. The next jump is to 15mm. No 10mm spacers are available and if you install a 5mm and then a 15mm spacer, you will see why.

My BBS wheel work very well with a 5mm spacer. The front offset becomes 33mm with this spacer. The TD wheels are 45mm offset and work well with either a 5mm spacer up front or a 15mm up front and a 5mm in the rear.

And yes, the lower the number, the farther out the wheels move.

 

Good lord, what a schooling on Suspension Geometry.... I'll have to read that a few more times hehe. Thanx

 

Good lord is right! Or should that be bad Satin? So Meb, If I go ahead and install that 12" lift kit on my Mini is that gonna eff up my geometry? lol! Thanks for all the good advice you give us! One day I'll have the best handling Mini around.

 

Just a word of advice, pick either a street set-up or track, not a mix. As I continue down that road, I find there is not such thing as combo-do-all package.

By the way, I had my worst track experience ever yesterday with my first off ever as well; depsite the heavier springs up front and aslightly dialed in rear bar, the back end snap around thru the left hander. The new setup does not work for me. Temps were really low, but that's not a new experience.
The car has never been well at the track.

 

Uh, oh. I hope you took pics of the wheels after this happened...

 

God I feel bad for all you guys....I've never personally seen a product flop this bad where the customers themselves have to work behind the scenes to make it right. At least most of you guys are working together to find a solution and being a little optimistic.

For shame to Megan for not recalling these and finding a solution once and for all in house. For shame on their judgment...you fellas tried in previous posts to pass the buck on to Pilo racing. Why the heck would you guys leave the R&D to a guy that doesn't even post a phone number on his web sight for customer service. For shame for trying to guilt trip the community....I was just perusing the other thread where i saw posts that you guys are threatening to "leave the community" because of rude emails and calls you have been getting. How dare you try to flip this and expect people not to be angry and work within YOUR timelines after they spent money on false promises. I think the community has been more than patient with your flopshow coilovers and as someone already mentioned you should be grateful at the fact they have not banded together in a law suit against you.

Seann

 

The off was with the BBS wheels and street tires. The TD wheels, as the BBS wheels are fine. I blew the bead, that's all. I'll load the pics today.

This is my last event with this car. I canceled Thursdays event. I've just never driven anything that bites so bad. The stocker was faster...hell, a guy in a stock S with some pretty wide R-compounds - and decent offset too, was waaaay faster.

 

Am i missing something??? I've been following the Megans since they were first posted. Except for some of the Pilo misinformation before shipping i haven't heard anything really bad about these coilovers since Megan stepped in. Also feedback back in forth with the company on a new product isn't unheard of in this kind of community.

Like i said, maybe something happened behind the scenes but i haven't seen anything to warrant a lawsuit unless there is another crazy thread going somewhere that i haven't seen.....