Suspension Bilstein SP's installed...
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5th Gear
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: Texas
When I say firmer than stock, I mean firmer than my 2003's SP+ suspension package. And, firmer than the SP+ struts and H&R springs. By firmer, I mean that the dampening and rebound are higher, and everything on the road surface is transmitted - and I mean everything. IMHO, it's not 'too firm', though, because the suspension is still compliant and not at all harsh.
Overall, however, the ride is BETTER, since there's no choppy-ness. On smooth surfaces, the Bilstein/H&R combo feels superb, rock solid, the car handles ridiculously well, and it tracks like a dream. On choppy surfaces, the SP's do their job much better than the OEM struts did with the H&R springs - no choppy behavior, wheels are planted, car doesn't get upset at all, and control is maintained at all times.
Compared to the Koni/H-Sport combo I've driven on a Cooper, I'd say the street ride is better with the Bilsteins/H&R combo - track/autocross performance is on par, too, IMHO.
There are certain spots on our autocross field that always give cars fits - some small ruts, potholes, etc. I didn't notice the car getting out of sorts on these spots like it would sometimes do with the OEM struts and H&R springs. All I can say is that the Bilstein SP's are better suited to the H&R spring's rates... More control, less oscillation, firmer ride, better planted.
I agree that threads on forums can add confusion. Nobody else was running the Bilstein SP's, so I decided to give them a shot even though many, MANY people told me to go with the Konis. I'm glad I didn't, personally. And, I didn't want to go with full coilovers like the PSS9's or Ledas mainly due to cost. I was simply looking for a bit more refinement, namely firmer dampening and rebound, and better wheel control. I got what I was looking for - but that's not to say that it will suit everyone's driving style. IMHO, the only way you can really figure that out is to either give them a shot, or go with something that's fully adjustable and will allow you to compromise.
Again, Bilstein SP's, H&R springs, and a 19mm rear H&R swaybar are working really, really well on my Cooper with the 205/50R15 Falken Azenis - I won my class again, a class up from the one I was running in last year, by 1.5 seconds, and posted better times than 53 other cars running with our BMWCCA chapter (most with considerably more horsepower than my 110 at the wheels). I was 34th overall in the standings (no PAX, raw times), about 8 seconds out of FTD. But once again, I state that my setup works for my driving style...
Overall, however, the ride is BETTER, since there's no choppy-ness. On smooth surfaces, the Bilstein/H&R combo feels superb, rock solid, the car handles ridiculously well, and it tracks like a dream. On choppy surfaces, the SP's do their job much better than the OEM struts did with the H&R springs - no choppy behavior, wheels are planted, car doesn't get upset at all, and control is maintained at all times.
Compared to the Koni/H-Sport combo I've driven on a Cooper, I'd say the street ride is better with the Bilsteins/H&R combo - track/autocross performance is on par, too, IMHO.
There are certain spots on our autocross field that always give cars fits - some small ruts, potholes, etc. I didn't notice the car getting out of sorts on these spots like it would sometimes do with the OEM struts and H&R springs. All I can say is that the Bilstein SP's are better suited to the H&R spring's rates... More control, less oscillation, firmer ride, better planted.
I agree that threads on forums can add confusion. Nobody else was running the Bilstein SP's, so I decided to give them a shot even though many, MANY people told me to go with the Konis. I'm glad I didn't, personally. And, I didn't want to go with full coilovers like the PSS9's or Ledas mainly due to cost. I was simply looking for a bit more refinement, namely firmer dampening and rebound, and better wheel control. I got what I was looking for - but that's not to say that it will suit everyone's driving style. IMHO, the only way you can really figure that out is to either give them a shot, or go with something that's fully adjustable and will allow you to compromise.
Again, Bilstein SP's, H&R springs, and a 19mm rear H&R swaybar are working really, really well on my Cooper with the 205/50R15 Falken Azenis - I won my class again, a class up from the one I was running in last year, by 1.5 seconds, and posted better times than 53 other cars running with our BMWCCA chapter (most with considerably more horsepower than my 110 at the wheels). I was 34th overall in the standings (no PAX, raw times), about 8 seconds out of FTD. But once again, I state that my setup works for my driving style...
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
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Scobib,
I appreciate your thread. I understand the quality of words you chose to use. Any time one of us decides to post a thread and follow-up like you have, we all need to be thankfull. The only reason (at this point) I am considering the PSS9 route is due to the apparent ride height concerns with camber kits. I'll have the ability to adjust out the difference with this true coilover kit, albeit, at the expense of travel. Perhaps, and I'm being repetative, the H-Sport rear spring will work with the H$R front spring; the greater drop with the H$R up front may compensate for the camber kit.
And I'm not looking for the punishing experience of my last ride, nor the ineffective damping nature at full soft. I believe that a damper should be able to effectively control springs thru out the damping range. The SST valving was supposed to cure this, but did not.
Thanks again, I really appreciate your time and information.
Ciao,
Michael
I appreciate your thread. I understand the quality of words you chose to use. Any time one of us decides to post a thread and follow-up like you have, we all need to be thankfull. The only reason (at this point) I am considering the PSS9 route is due to the apparent ride height concerns with camber kits. I'll have the ability to adjust out the difference with this true coilover kit, albeit, at the expense of travel. Perhaps, and I'm being repetative, the H-Sport rear spring will work with the H$R front spring; the greater drop with the H$R up front may compensate for the camber kit.
And I'm not looking for the punishing experience of my last ride, nor the ineffective damping nature at full soft. I believe that a damper should be able to effectively control springs thru out the damping range. The SST valving was supposed to cure this, but did not.
Thanks again, I really appreciate your time and information.
Ciao,
Michael
Originally Posted by scobib
When I say firmer than stock, I mean firmer than my 2003's SP+ suspension package. And, firmer than the SP+ struts and H&R springs. By firmer, I mean that the dampening and rebound are higher, and everything on the road surface is transmitted - and I mean everything. IMHO, it's not 'too firm', though, because the suspension is still compliant and not at all harsh.
Overall, however, the ride is BETTER, since there's no choppy-ness. On smooth surfaces, the Bilstein/H&R combo feels superb, rock solid, the car handles ridiculously well, and it tracks like a dream. On choppy surfaces, the SP's do their job much better than the OEM struts did with the H&R springs - no choppy behavior, wheels are planted, car doesn't get upset at all, and control is maintained at all times.
Compared to the Koni/H-Sport combo I've driven on a Cooper, I'd say the street ride is better with the Bilsteins/H&R combo - track/autocross performance is on par, too, IMHO.
There are certain spots on our autocross field that always give cars fits - some small ruts, potholes, etc. I didn't notice the car getting out of sorts on these spots like it would sometimes do with the OEM struts and H&R springs. All I can say is that the Bilstein SP's are better suited to the H&R spring's rates... More control, less oscillation, firmer ride, better planted.
I agree that threads on forums can add confusion. Nobody else was running the Bilstein SP's, so I decided to give them a shot even though many, MANY people told me to go with the Konis. I'm glad I didn't, personally. And, I didn't want to go with full coilovers like the PSS9's or Ledas mainly due to cost. I was simply looking for a bit more refinement, namely firmer dampening and rebound, and better wheel control. I got what I was looking for - but that's not to say that it will suit everyone's driving style. IMHO, the only way you can really figure that out is to either give them a shot, or go with something that's fully adjustable and will allow you to compromise.
Again, Bilstein SP's, H&R springs, and a 19mm rear H&R swaybar are working really, really well on my Cooper with the 205/50R15 Falken Azenis - I won my class again, a class up from the one I was running in last year, by 1.5 seconds, and posted better times than 53 other cars running with our BMWCCA chapter (most with considerably more horsepower than my 110 at the wheels). I was 34th overall in the standings (no PAX, raw times), about 8 seconds out of FTD. But once again, I state that my setup works for my driving style...
Overall, however, the ride is BETTER, since there's no choppy-ness. On smooth surfaces, the Bilstein/H&R combo feels superb, rock solid, the car handles ridiculously well, and it tracks like a dream. On choppy surfaces, the SP's do their job much better than the OEM struts did with the H&R springs - no choppy behavior, wheels are planted, car doesn't get upset at all, and control is maintained at all times.
Compared to the Koni/H-Sport combo I've driven on a Cooper, I'd say the street ride is better with the Bilsteins/H&R combo - track/autocross performance is on par, too, IMHO.
There are certain spots on our autocross field that always give cars fits - some small ruts, potholes, etc. I didn't notice the car getting out of sorts on these spots like it would sometimes do with the OEM struts and H&R springs. All I can say is that the Bilstein SP's are better suited to the H&R spring's rates... More control, less oscillation, firmer ride, better planted.
I agree that threads on forums can add confusion. Nobody else was running the Bilstein SP's, so I decided to give them a shot even though many, MANY people told me to go with the Konis. I'm glad I didn't, personally. And, I didn't want to go with full coilovers like the PSS9's or Ledas mainly due to cost. I was simply looking for a bit more refinement, namely firmer dampening and rebound, and better wheel control. I got what I was looking for - but that's not to say that it will suit everyone's driving style. IMHO, the only way you can really figure that out is to either give them a shot, or go with something that's fully adjustable and will allow you to compromise.
Again, Bilstein SP's, H&R springs, and a 19mm rear H&R swaybar are working really, really well on my Cooper with the 205/50R15 Falken Azenis - I won my class again, a class up from the one I was running in last year, by 1.5 seconds, and posted better times than 53 other cars running with our BMWCCA chapter (most with considerably more horsepower than my 110 at the wheels). I was 34th overall in the standings (no PAX, raw times), about 8 seconds out of FTD. But once again, I state that my setup works for my driving style...
5th Gear
Joined: Feb 2005
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From: Raleigh, NC
I agree that his followup helped to clarify his original post and was very useful.
I do not agree, however, that a damper should necessarily be able to control a spring throughout the entire adjustment range. One way to look at it is that having excess adjustment range allows you the freedom to make small spring rate changes and still be within the operating range of the shocks. If the shock is capable of such a wide adjustment range it would seem like a more useful product than one whose range was limited to a narrower band.
The only exception might be a custom-valved shock developed for a very specific spring/wheel rate. At this point, finer tuning across a narrower band might be of more help.
I do not agree, however, that a damper should necessarily be able to control a spring throughout the entire adjustment range. One way to look at it is that having excess adjustment range allows you the freedom to make small spring rate changes and still be within the operating range of the shocks. If the shock is capable of such a wide adjustment range it would seem like a more useful product than one whose range was limited to a narrower band.
The only exception might be a custom-valved shock developed for a very specific spring/wheel rate. At this point, finer tuning across a narrower band might be of more help.
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,301
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Hey Jeff,
The word 'control' in my post is a qualitative term - subjective. The only way to understand the feel in my words, is to experience the the lack of rebound damping first hand. I do not necessarily disagree with your comments. However, the degree to which one damper works at full soft when compared with another is not the same. In reality, the 400lb/in linear rate Eibachs are too heavy for either of the two Koni dampers mentioned for the application - 99 Civic Si. The standard Yellows worked reasonalby well at their hardest setting and the SST valved units at three quarters from full hard. Both are very harsh at these settings...a big hammer approach. I learned too late that a 400lb/in spring is actually beyond the performance envelope of the standard yellows, FYI. That's why they were re-valved by Truechoice.
Unfortunately, most of the words we use to describe handling/ride compromises is subjective, making an apples to apples comparison difficult if not impossible. That is why I ask as many folks as possible about their experiences; if I continue to read or hear the same phrases in their replys, I can feel a little more comfortable with the language used.
Ciao,
Michael
The word 'control' in my post is a qualitative term - subjective. The only way to understand the feel in my words, is to experience the the lack of rebound damping first hand. I do not necessarily disagree with your comments. However, the degree to which one damper works at full soft when compared with another is not the same. In reality, the 400lb/in linear rate Eibachs are too heavy for either of the two Koni dampers mentioned for the application - 99 Civic Si. The standard Yellows worked reasonalby well at their hardest setting and the SST valved units at three quarters from full hard. Both are very harsh at these settings...a big hammer approach. I learned too late that a 400lb/in spring is actually beyond the performance envelope of the standard yellows, FYI. That's why they were re-valved by Truechoice.
Unfortunately, most of the words we use to describe handling/ride compromises is subjective, making an apples to apples comparison difficult if not impossible. That is why I ask as many folks as possible about their experiences; if I continue to read or hear the same phrases in their replys, I can feel a little more comfortable with the language used.
Ciao,
Michael
Originally Posted by JeffS
I agree that his followup helped to clarify his original post and was very useful.
I do not agree, however, that a damper should necessarily be able to control a spring throughout the entire adjustment range. One way to look at it is that having excess adjustment range allows you the freedom to make small spring rate changes and still be within the operating range of the shocks. If the shock is capable of such a wide adjustment range it would seem like a more useful product than one whose range was limited to a narrower band.
The only exception might be a custom-valved shock developed for a very specific spring/wheel rate. At this point, finer tuning across a narrower band might be of more help.
I do not agree, however, that a damper should necessarily be able to control a spring throughout the entire adjustment range. One way to look at it is that having excess adjustment range allows you the freedom to make small spring rate changes and still be within the operating range of the shocks. If the shock is capable of such a wide adjustment range it would seem like a more useful product than one whose range was limited to a narrower band.
The only exception might be a custom-valved shock developed for a very specific spring/wheel rate. At this point, finer tuning across a narrower band might be of more help.
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 667
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From: Wappingers Falls, NY
Originally Posted by scobib
The H&R springs set the ride height
5th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
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What to do?!
So after all that it's still a "Ford VS. Chevy" argument? 
I run:
205/50-15 Falken Azenis Sport on Konig Helium Wheels 40mm offset
H-Sport Springs with stock struts
RDR Camber Plates -1.7F/-1.5R and RDR Rear Control Arms
Mini-Madness Rear Anti-sway bar - front setting for autox/track, rear for street
Now my question is, do I want the Bilstein's or the Koni's? You guys have forgotten more about compression and rebound than I have ever learned.
:smile:
I find that since putting the H-Sports on my front bottoms out pretty easily (on the street) and I can't stand it.
I usually take first in class and I'm about 1-2 secs off FTD depending on who shows up... I'd like to take the "BANG" out of the street driving and take the handling up just a notch for AutoX. I've been to 2 driving schools and my instict tells me there is just a bit more I can squeeze out of the proverbial suspension sponge.
Thanks and regards,
-Jim
P.S. I hope this doesn't count as a hijack.
P.P.S. Yes, I'm going for as many smileys as possible in one post. You may slap me.
I run:
205/50-15 Falken Azenis Sport on Konig Helium Wheels 40mm offset
H-Sport Springs with stock struts
RDR Camber Plates -1.7F/-1.5R and RDR Rear Control Arms
Mini-Madness Rear Anti-sway bar - front setting for autox/track, rear for street
Now my question is, do I want the Bilstein's or the Koni's? You guys have forgotten more about compression and rebound than I have ever learned.
:smile: I find that since putting the H-Sports on my front bottoms out pretty easily (on the street) and I can't stand it.
I usually take first in class and I'm about 1-2 secs off FTD depending on who shows up...
I'd like to take the "BANG" out of the street driving and take the handling up just a notch for AutoX. I've been to 2 driving schools and my instict tells me there is just a bit more I can squeeze out of the proverbial suspension sponge.Thanks and regards,
-Jim
P.S. I hope this doesn't count as a hijack.
P.P.S. Yes, I'm going for as many smileys as possible in one post. You may slap me.
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
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Your comment about the front bottoming out was a big concern for me with regard to the H-Sports. I was going to use H$R's front spring with the H-sport rear spring until I learned that under mount camber plates upset ride height. So I'll probably end up with the SSP9 coilovers. You may want to try the H$R spring up front. The spring rates with this combo are still biased to the rear for better handling...I personaly feel the split between H-Sports' front and rear rates are great for the track - aside from a very light front rate - but a little tricky on unknown winding roads.
I'm sorry, did you have a question? Oh yes! I would pick the Bilstein dampers for the street every time. I find Koni dampers much too harsh. And on the street that harshness does affect handling stability and your comfort and therefore your ability to drive quickly and smoothly. Bilstein has always provided me with what I feel is an unbelievable compromise between ride and very well controlled, but not harsh, body movements.
...keep in mind too, that H$R's front spring has an apparent greater drop the the H-Sport rear. This may mean a camber kit will actually level things out. I'm waiting for this info before pulling the trigger.
...but mjolnir, the H-Sport spring rates are better for autoXing.
Sorry for the long and disconnected reply
I'm sorry, did you have a question? Oh yes! I would pick the Bilstein dampers for the street every time. I find Koni dampers much too harsh. And on the street that harshness does affect handling stability and your comfort and therefore your ability to drive quickly and smoothly. Bilstein has always provided me with what I feel is an unbelievable compromise between ride and very well controlled, but not harsh, body movements.
...keep in mind too, that H$R's front spring has an apparent greater drop the the H-Sport rear. This may mean a camber kit will actually level things out. I'm waiting for this info before pulling the trigger.
...but mjolnir, the H-Sport spring rates are better for autoXing.
Sorry for the long and disconnected reply
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5th Gear
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From: Texas
Oh, I dunno about the H-Sports being that much better for autocrossing than the H&R's - they're pretty close to one another.
Anyhoo, I really like my Bilsteins - there was a slight 'jacking' effect when I first installed them, but now the car's settled back in to the previous ride height.
Like you, I also experienced the factory struts bottoming out with the H&R springs. No more with the Bilstein's!
I just don't think the Konis provide a heck of a lot of an advantage, since it's impossible to quickly adjust the rears. Kind of takes the whole point away of having adjustable struts, IMHO. Shrug. I know some people have found good "all around settings" for the rear and crank up the front, but I just don't think there's much of an advantage there...
The Bilsteins do provide a more solid autocross ride than the OEM struts with the H&R springs... no more bouncing on our rough courses, and the tires are always firmly planted. Wheel control is excellent...
Anyhoo, I really like my Bilsteins - there was a slight 'jacking' effect when I first installed them, but now the car's settled back in to the previous ride height.
Like you, I also experienced the factory struts bottoming out with the H&R springs. No more with the Bilstein's!
I just don't think the Konis provide a heck of a lot of an advantage, since it's impossible to quickly adjust the rears. Kind of takes the whole point away of having adjustable struts, IMHO. Shrug. I know some people have found good "all around settings" for the rear and crank up the front, but I just don't think there's much of an advantage there...
The Bilsteins do provide a more solid autocross ride than the OEM struts with the H&R springs... no more bouncing on our rough courses, and the tires are always firmly planted. Wheel control is excellent...
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
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Oh, I dunno about the H-Sports being that much better for autocrossing than the H&R's - they're pretty close to one another.
Hey Scobib,
H&R rates are square, or even if you prefer at 260lb/in front and rear. H-Sports are 195lb/in front and 300lb/in. in the rear. The H-Sports will make for much quicker rotation. 105lb/in differnece between front and rear is pretty big; I once had 400lb/in front and 600lb/in rear rates installed in another car. Rotation was now! Eventually I evened these up at 400lb/in front and rear. Combined with a 22mm rear bar, the car still rotated very nicely, without being twitchy in triple digit turns. I really think the H&R rates are perfect for the street.
Hey Scobib,
H&R rates are square, or even if you prefer at 260lb/in front and rear. H-Sports are 195lb/in front and 300lb/in. in the rear. The H-Sports will make for much quicker rotation. 105lb/in differnece between front and rear is pretty big; I once had 400lb/in front and 600lb/in rear rates installed in another car. Rotation was now! Eventually I evened these up at 400lb/in front and rear. Combined with a 22mm rear bar, the car still rotated very nicely, without being twitchy in triple digit turns. I really think the H&R rates are perfect for the street.
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5th Gear
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From: Texas
The H&R rates are perfect for anything, IMHO... I can rotate the crap out of my car with the Bilstein/H&R and 19mm H&R rear swaybar. Hit the brakes, turn in, and rotation begins - adjust the throttle and totally change the car in the corner.
My buddy that runs H-Sport springs on his S, along with camber plates, adjustable rear control arms, a 22mm Madness rear sway, all kinds of performance mods, etc. was only ever 1-1.4 seconds ahead of me at the autocross - raw times over 1.2-1.5 mile long courses. Same tires, RT-215 Falken Azenis. About the same driving skill, both setting FTD's in our classes. Now that he's switched to R-Compounds, he's a bit faster - but, I'm not convinced that the H-Sports are ANY better for autocrossing...
Spring rates are over-rated, IMHO. It's more about building the right system for your car. Mine's perfect for me...
My buddy that runs H-Sport springs on his S, along with camber plates, adjustable rear control arms, a 22mm Madness rear sway, all kinds of performance mods, etc. was only ever 1-1.4 seconds ahead of me at the autocross - raw times over 1.2-1.5 mile long courses. Same tires, RT-215 Falken Azenis. About the same driving skill, both setting FTD's in our classes. Now that he's switched to R-Compounds, he's a bit faster - but, I'm not convinced that the H-Sports are ANY better for autocrossing...
Spring rates are over-rated, IMHO. It's more about building the right system for your car. Mine's perfect for me...
Originally Posted by scobib
I just don't think the Konis provide a heck of a lot of an advantage, since it's impossible to quickly adjust the rears. Kind of takes the whole point away of having adjustable struts, IMHO. Shrug. I know some people have found good "all around settings" for the rear and crank up the front, but I just don't think there's much of an advantage there...
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Spring rates are over-rated, IMHO. It's more about building the right system for your car. Mine's perfect for me...
Scobib,
I hope you understand I'm not questioning your choice of springs and dampers. From your description, the combo sounds great.
On the other hand, springs are the heart of every suspension system. Spring rates determine the findamental handling character of a car. With regard to the H-Sports; a spring set that includes a rear spring that is 50% heavier than the front should allow the car to rotate much faster than an even rate in tight cornering situations. But there are other factors at work here too. The front H-Sports are quite soft and in my opinion may allow the front of the car to pitch, roll, yaw with less control than your your H&R springs - the front of the Mini as you know carries approximately 60% of the total weight of the car. If you kept your front spring rates at 260lb/in and installed a spring 50% heavier in the rear (390-400lb/in) the handling character would be different from the H-Sport set-up even though the percntage between front and rear are the same. And finally, a 50% biased to the rear can potentially make for very twitchy high speed cornering.
Your are 110% correct, the suspension system should be judged as a whole. But Spring rates define the underlying character of any suspesnion system. With regard to damping, any engineer worth his or her salt, begins suspension design with spring rates, then dampers, then swaybars.
I also had no problem rotating my last car with even rates front and rear - with a 22mm bar. But the car definately rotated better with a 400F/600R than with a 400 front and rear. The word better above is relative. From my own experience I would agree completely that 260/260 will also rotate very well.
Scobib,
I hope you understand I'm not questioning your choice of springs and dampers. From your description, the combo sounds great.
On the other hand, springs are the heart of every suspension system. Spring rates determine the findamental handling character of a car. With regard to the H-Sports; a spring set that includes a rear spring that is 50% heavier than the front should allow the car to rotate much faster than an even rate in tight cornering situations. But there are other factors at work here too. The front H-Sports are quite soft and in my opinion may allow the front of the car to pitch, roll, yaw with less control than your your H&R springs - the front of the Mini as you know carries approximately 60% of the total weight of the car. If you kept your front spring rates at 260lb/in and installed a spring 50% heavier in the rear (390-400lb/in) the handling character would be different from the H-Sport set-up even though the percntage between front and rear are the same. And finally, a 50% biased to the rear can potentially make for very twitchy high speed cornering.
Your are 110% correct, the suspension system should be judged as a whole. But Spring rates define the underlying character of any suspesnion system. With regard to damping, any engineer worth his or her salt, begins suspension design with spring rates, then dampers, then swaybars.
I also had no problem rotating my last car with even rates front and rear - with a 22mm bar. But the car definately rotated better with a 400F/600R than with a 400 front and rear. The word better above is relative. From my own experience I would agree completely that 260/260 will also rotate very well.
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5th Gear
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From: Texas
Originally Posted by kyriian
scobib... arent they like the konis that you must take them out for adjustment? or are they adjustable from say like the spax and adjustable from the sides?
And sorry for not answering sooner - been busy helping my Dad build a suspension for his new E30 325is...
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5th Gear
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From: Texas
Ze suspension experiment continues...
Because of a new tire choice for autocrossing, Michelin Pilot Sport Cups in 225/50R15, I realized that I could use some negative camber in the front to maximize the grip and increase tire life... So, I'll be bolting in Ireland Engineering's street/race camber plates this weekend...
The rear, however, has too much negative camber for the specs I would like to be running due to the lowering springs - to counter that, I'll be installing KMac's rear camber bushing kit. No, I didn't want to buy 4 rear control arms, but yes, I did want to be able to adjust both camber and toe in the rear. The KMac rear bushings allow you to do both - one set goes in the lower arms, and one set goes in the upper arms. They use eccentric bushings to allow you to dial in the camber and toe you want in the rear. This setup is proven among my e30 3-series racing buddies, so I feel rather confident that it will also work well for the MINI.
Final settings should be something like -2.2 up front, -1.0-1.2 in the rear for camber... .25 total toe in the front and 0 in the rear (or as close to 0 as I can get). After seeing what this alignment setup has for other MINIs, I expect to dial out some rear swaybar to offset any loosey-goosiness mid-corner.
Should prove to be an entertaining change!
Because of a new tire choice for autocrossing, Michelin Pilot Sport Cups in 225/50R15, I realized that I could use some negative camber in the front to maximize the grip and increase tire life... So, I'll be bolting in Ireland Engineering's street/race camber plates this weekend...
The rear, however, has too much negative camber for the specs I would like to be running due to the lowering springs - to counter that, I'll be installing KMac's rear camber bushing kit. No, I didn't want to buy 4 rear control arms, but yes, I did want to be able to adjust both camber and toe in the rear. The KMac rear bushings allow you to do both - one set goes in the lower arms, and one set goes in the upper arms. They use eccentric bushings to allow you to dial in the camber and toe you want in the rear. This setup is proven among my e30 3-series racing buddies, so I feel rather confident that it will also work well for the MINI.
Final settings should be something like -2.2 up front, -1.0-1.2 in the rear for camber... .25 total toe in the front and 0 in the rear (or as close to 0 as I can get). After seeing what this alignment setup has for other MINIs, I expect to dial out some rear swaybar to offset any loosey-goosiness mid-corner.
Should prove to be an entertaining change!
3rd Gear
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: bham,al.
toe
i also used the ireland plates, mine are fixed so i ended up with about -2 up front. i had mine aligned and they used the three bolts that are above and in front of the rear wheels to adjust the rear toe. i have lower rear control arms for the camber. i cant wait to be able to get the sp's to go with my vogtland springs. to much deficit spending of late.
3rd Gear
Joined: Oct 2005
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Hi
I have a question about the Bilstein.
From the website off Bilstein:
Does this mean I cant use my Eibach springs with the Bilstein SP. Eibach springs lowered my car 30mm
I have a question about the Bilstein.
From the website off Bilstein:
By how much can I lower the body with the B6 Sports ( not the shortened version) using shorter springs?
By up to 20 mm. That's the typical body height drop offered for new cars ex factory. A shock absorber with shortened stroke is required when lowering by more than 20 mm. In this case, pre-tensioning of the spring which keeps the body away from the wheel under all driving conditions is maintained. Otherwise, the danger exists of the spring slipping out of the holder causing the car to suddenly becomes uncontrollable.
By up to 20 mm. That's the typical body height drop offered for new cars ex factory. A shock absorber with shortened stroke is required when lowering by more than 20 mm. In this case, pre-tensioning of the spring which keeps the body away from the wheel under all driving conditions is maintained. Otherwise, the danger exists of the spring slipping out of the holder causing the car to suddenly becomes uncontrollable.
Does this mean I cant use my Eibach springs with the Bilstein SP. Eibach springs lowered my car 30mm
3rd Gear
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 161
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Originally Posted by orthomini
allshocks only lists the bilsteins as: VE3 and rears as BE3.(except for the pss9's) what are the B6's? from allshocks all they say is that the sport shocks are for lowered vehicles.
One more question:
Will the Bilstein shocks raise the suspension a bit with Eibach lowering springs (3cm drop). I dont use any camber kits.
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